Manticora --> Hyperion <-- Dan Simmons

enki3600

MetalHead & Engineer
Sep 20, 2004
151
0
16
Ok, I've got to ask this and see if anyone else has had this "revelation"
This is probably a long post, because I'm long winded. (which is undoubtedly a side effect of the need for concise information in engineering :B )

For all of you out there who aren't into or haven't heard Manticora, SHAME ON YOU! :heh: And then those who know them know they kick ass. I first heard Roots of Eternity and was instantly intrigued. And though I like Roots better than Darkness... they were both great albums, and of course, being a major Lovecraft fan, the themes of a lot of the songs went very well with me :)
They seem to capture the perfect essence of Lovecraft in their general yet oddly unique style. They sound to me like a fast power metal, but with a darker energy (NOT like Black/Death) and the vocals, though keeping in pace with the music, make it seem more melancholic and slow. (keep in mind I am only a metalhead and critic, and have no musical education whatsoever, so all you musicians bear with me if I butcher the lingo)

That is very similar to how I see Lovecraft. He is a very excellent storyteller, and he writes just very typically as if he were telling any ol' story. But rather than trying to create an atmosphere from emotion, he simply lays on the details and facts, and lets the macabre tales arise from that.

So, moving along then. When Hyperion came out I snatched that up really quick-like and though it took me a few runs to get fully into it, I really enjoy the more passionate energy this album produces. But shortly after I got it I was at Barnes & Noble and saw a book with that title as well, by Dan Simmons. I wasn't sure if the album was based on the book, or the book and album based on some other mythology or history, or just some strange coincidence. After reading the synopsis I figured the album had to be based on the book, so I bought it (along with it's sequel), making him only the 3rd FICTION author I read (after Lovecraft and Arthur C Clarke). I did find out that the album was based on the book, but the book then sat around on my shelf as I had many other books queued up first.

Well, shortly after getting home from PPV I started reading Hyperion. It has been heralded as "one of the greatest modern sci-fis" and other eye catching phrases that I never really put much stock into until I read it anyway. I believe some of them even compared him with Clarke. The book consists of 7 pilgrims on a journey to save humanity (but in an obscure way). and prior to making this journey, each of them tells a tale of why they are involved in it. I am just starting the 3rd tale.

I am so involved in this book it is amazing! I can already vouch for many of the appraisals it has been given. Though I don't know if I would go so far as comparing him to Clarke (although Simmons is rather detailed in his description of technology and its evolution, it is still not quite the speculative awe that Clarke puts into it).

As I finish tales/landmarks of the book that coincide with the album, I listen to that song to see what I can reflect on. (I am refraining from listening to any further in the album just because I don't want to spoil any more of it... I have choruses and such echoing in my head that already have me guessing at whom and what they refer to).

The Intro and Intermission songs do a great bridge gapping of the tales as it pertains to the book, though I'm not really sure how to feel about the moods (of the songs or passages int he book). But the two tales I've finished so far relating to the priest and the marine and their respective songs is just OUTfrigginSTANDING. Filaments of Armageddon capture a perfect image of the priests trek and I had to laugh at the mention of the "retard people" The Marine's tale was also very well portrayed. His confusion and change of reason was nicely exemplified by the fluctuation in pace of the melody, however, I did think that the verse correlating to the visions of war should have been a little more chaotic.

I'm waiting to see how my favorite songs (Cantos and A Long Farewell) stand up. Cantos is based on my thus far least favorite character (but maybe I'll find out why after I read his story)... and I have an idea about A Long Farewell, but the use of female vocals has me confused on it yet.

Anyway, I'd like to hear anybody else's thoughts on this if they have read the book... or hopefully encourage any/all of you to read this book and pick up the album!!
 
Manticora = FUCKING METAL


And to piss you off right off the start... Lars (singer) was at PPV this year, selling shirts and representing for Prototype. And yes, I got to shoot the shit with him for a while. Then off he went to bang his fuckin head for Prototypes' last few songs (Giant cloud of blonde hair in the front row) and came back to keep selling shirts.

Ha ha. *gloats shamelessly*

JUST KIDDING! He's a really cool cat, and REALLY wants to get on the bill for next year's show. And that, my friend, will be the last straw to surgery on my neck when that happens! :headbang: So we may see them on our shores someday.... someday....



As for the book. My drummer's reading it. He loves it, wants to get the other three books to finish the story, and then he'll hand them off to me. I really should be reading Hyperion right now anyways, but I've got The Silmarillion to finish. Again. But I guarantee you I'll read it sometime soon.


Have you discovered why they don't tell the tale of the 7th pilgrim yet? He won't reveal it to me, but he does say that the Poet (? whoever the one is that swears like a sailor) is fuckin hilarious to read. I've not read too many 'funny' books, but he says this guy is genuinely rediculous and great fun to read.

Need more time in my days, damnit... hmm... what's this? Oh look! It's an album entitled Hyperion! I think I'll play this three times in a row like usual!

*breaks neck*
 
Why you dirty little son of a mother fudging... er... now I don't know how to feel about the whole deal. I missed the preparty show cuz my first flight got cancelled and my second got sent back after circling in a holding pattern for nearly 2 hours. F*CK IVAN. There I said it. But had I made it, I had no idea that he was there and would now feel geniuinely retarded that I didn't see him. But there were plenty of my gods there to bow down before as is. :headbang:

I did want to see prototype though. I never heard the other bands playing the preparty, but do love the song Trinity.

I'm not sure why the Consul (7th guy) doesn't tell his tale. I didn't know that he didn't. He makes a fuss early on about hoping he doesn't have to, and then the bartender on Hyperion makes one comment about "what with all you went through" or something like that. But from the other explanations/reflections on his life it just says all he does is drink to become numb. Maybe in the later books he reveals his tale?

The Poet is thus far my least favorite character. He is funny as hell, but right now he appears to me as just comic relief. I'm just starting his tale and will probably know why he is so erratic afterwards. Something about him being centuries old because of long Time Debts is probably what makes him so necessary for the trip :Smug:

After that, I feel that the butch lesbian chick I don't really get into. She definitely is the antagonist, always pushy and against the grain. Early in the story the Hegemony mention the possibility that one of the pilgrims is a spy, she is thus far my candidate, but it is never the obvious one.

I'm pumped to finish the series too. The third book, Endymion, takes place like 200 years after the second book (which I think is just a straight continuation of the first). They have made one reference so far in the first book to the CITY of Endymion (but the book is based upon a guy named that), so I guess I'll have to see how that pans out. I don't know what the fourth book is.

If the subsequent books are as amazing as the first one, it would be awesome if Manticora did like a Quadrilogy of the books :D

By the way, I love the quote. I'm really pleased to see FF crawl back out of the woodwork with Archetype. You can't even notice Dino missing, good move on their part before the entire sound of the band started sounding like "back the f*ck up"
 
Oh I KNOW that Dino is gone! No hiphop and no techno splattered all over the fuckin place!

When we met Lars, we didn't know it was him! Jeremy leans over and says "Check it out! A Manticora shirt! Fuckin A!"

"Hey man, that shirt is fuckin awesome! Where did you get it?"
"I'm in the band."

...

"FUCKIN SHIT ON A STICK THAT'S FUCKIN LARS! THE SINGER! FUUUUUCK!!!"



Yeah... there's some kind of secret behind the Poet, and I have no idea what it is, cuz I told him not to reveal too much to me.

And the next album will be a concept album again.... but of their own design. Here's the plot...

What if the seven deadly sins weren't all that we knew of? What if there was an eighth deadly sin?

Not too shabby of an idea. They wanted to write an album of just songs. Just their best riffage and no story. None of them could write anything interesting! They didn't want to do a simple album. They wanted to write their own story. Heh heh heh..... fuckin METAL.
 
Metal rules on so many levels. The fans are loyal, the fans are real, the fans are permanent, the fans are bands, the bands are fans, the music is smart, the music is intricate. There's a reason you can compare it to the classical intricacies of centuries past :) ... and I suppose the fan base is still kinda as quaint and elite. :headbang:

The deadly sins thing does sounds pretty cool, although then it confines you to catholics. My guess is the 8th deadly sin is amputee midget porn. I am so going to hell for that one.

But then again... with catholics, there may be 7 DEADLY sins, everything else is just regular sin :D
 
I'm actually most partial to the fourth one, Rise of Endymion. You always wonder just where the hell he's going with his various plots in all three previous books, but once you get to the end, it's just one big "ohhhhh, I get it!"

It's quite a love letter to his favorite literary authors/poets, too.
 
speed metal crap if this is what new prog. rock is you can have it , its not for me, yes i went to manticor, web sight to is what thay sound like it sucks! am i in the prog rock forums , or the head bangers speed metal rock forums,?
 
Wow - it's great to see all these comments on Manticora and Hyperion (well, except the one 2 above this, hehe ... not everyone can like it, right?).

So, let's see ...

First, thanks of course for the great comments on "Hyperion". The band put a lot of effort into making this album, and we tried real hard to get Dan Simmons' approval of it. That would have made it an official "Hyperion" soundtrack, so to speak :) Unfortunately his lawyer said "no", since they have been negotiating for making a movie out of "Hyperion", and only 3 weeks before recording the album, Lars had to alter all lyrics, so that the direct references to the book was cut out. That's why the bikuras are referred to as the retarded people (as someone noticed) and other stuff like that.

As for the Martin Silenos character, well he's definitely my favorite, although he is an aquired taste, haha.

For ProgPower in Atlanta, Lars was there together with me (as Lars works for me here at Intromental). And since we had two bands playing at PP; Prototype at the Pre-Party and Wuthering Heights at the official part of the festival; we HAD to go :) We had a lot of fun, and it was nice to meet all of you.

If anyone didn't notice it, the shorthaired guitarist from Wuthering Heights was in fact Martin from Manticora (who played on both Hyperion and on the new disc - he is a hired musician for the band now, but will definitely stick around for upcoming tours and recordings as far as his schedule allows him).

Regarding the new disc - yes, it's another concept album, where the band decided to create 8 alternative deadly sins. I loved when someone above mentioned "amputee midget porn" as a deadly sin, hehehe ... actually, when we talked about the concept originally, we all (band and management) came up with some really silly sins, but amputee midget porn really takes the prize :)

Thanks for all the comments - we hope to have Manticora playing at PP next year if Glenn would allow us to get over there. We know how many bands would like to play there, and the odds are hard - but hopefully Glenn will love the new disc so much that he can't say no *smile*

"8 Deadly Sins" will be released in Japan by King Records in 2 weeks, in Europe / Australia / Canada on October 25th by Massacre Records, in USA on November 1st by Nightmare Records, and in Asia (except Japan as mentioned before) it will be released through Melodic Heaven in November. Go get it :)

Thanks,
Claus
Intromental Management

www.intromental.com/manticora
www.manticora.dk
 
Awesome news on the imminent release of the new album! Guess who WONT be picking it up? well... I'm out of that group as my ass will be ordering it ASAP

That sucks that it couldn't get authorized, Simmons must not be a metal fan :D
I suppose that the Shrike was probably mentioned too and had to be cut out? Then how does that all work... because is not "Hyperion" a trademark of simmons as well? All these convoluted politics, why can't people accept praise and tributation honorably rather than trying to scavange the adoration of the fans for money or something?

I do have the second book and at the rate I'm going I will be continuing straight through. Had I know that the two Endymion books were part of the series I probably would have snagged them right away as well. I like Silenus' post-stroke vocabulary and the way he emphasizes how even though it was 3x more than most stroke victims, most of them were redundant words (piss and peepee, shit and poopoo, hahaha)

I think I may also try "Hollow Man" by him. Being about a mathematician, and me being a major nerd, I think we'll get alone just fine :loco:

Agreed that not everyone can like something--to each his own. But blatantly coming out throwing childish spurts of profanity is not the way to get someones attention or support. The peepee poor grammer either means a non-native english speaker or just an outright imbecile.
I was under the impression that this was ProgPOWER, not just prog rock. :p

Anyway, to all you who put up a good discussion, thanks :worship: , I was afraid that I was going to be alone having read these books and correlated them to the album. But then I should expect more from this community than I do from my pitiful hometown of cookiecutter people and posers.
 
HAHAHAHAHAHAH. Party on Wayne. Party on Garth!

Idaho, ha, I should be so lucky!
Though I'm currently in the cornfields of Iowa, I hail from the barren wastelands of the flattest part of the frozen midwest. Where even politicians fear to tread! Backwoods North Dakota.
*off in the distance you hear snow blowing and someone saying in a thick norwegian accent: "oh my, here comes dat vunderful snow doncha know"*
 
enki3600 said:
That sucks that it couldn't get authorized, Simmons must not be a metal fan :D

It wasn't really Simmons who were against it, but his lawyer/agent Mr.Curtis really were afraid of screwing up the movie-negotiations (which I can understand).

enki3600 said:
I suppose that the Shrike was probably mentioned too and had to be cut out?

Yup ... So tell me, what's he called in the CD? You remember?

enki3600 said:
Then how does that all work... because is not "Hyperion" a trademark of simmons as well? All these convoluted politics, why can't people accept praise and tributation honorably rather than trying to scavange the adoration of the fans for money or something?

"Hyperion" isn't a trademark of Simmons. It's an ancient word from Greek mythology (I think ... don't kill me if I'm mistaken).

I don't think Simmons didn't like the "tribute" as such - in fact the Manticora disc has been discussed many times at Simmons official forum - it's simply politics concerning the million dollar movie .. and hey, a million bucks is better than a Danish band paying tribute to you, right? ;-)

enki3600 said:
I think I may also try "Hollow Man" by him. Being about a mathematician, and me being a major nerd, I think we'll get alone just fine :loco:

Read all his books - they all have something special about them. My favorite - besides the Hyperion/Endymion series - is Song Of Kali, which is so freaking scary!!!

Claus
Intromental
 
Had heard of the band before but haven't heard any music - that should change soon now though.

I LOVE the HYPERION series - keep reading man, its GREAT stuff!!! :headbang:
 
Claus / Intromental said:
Yup ... So tell me, what's he called in the CD? You remember?

Well, obviously "the chrome bladed beast" is the shrike, and there are numerous references to "The One"


Claus / Intromental said:
I don't think Simmons didn't like the "tribute" as such - in fact the Manticora disc has been discussed many times at Simmons official forum - it's simply politics concerning the million dollar movie .. and hey, a million bucks is better than a Danish band paying tribute to you, right? ;-)
Money is objective :p I wouldn't mind having it, but c'mon... the band tribute is just as cool as the movie tribute, it all means you must've done something that people like :)
Damn near after every page I read I keep thinking to myself "man, someone needs to make this into a movie!" However, a movie wouldn't do it justice. It'd have to be like a miniseries or something, because each "tale" could span an entire movie. (thus far anyway) or at least 2 per movie. I am wondering what they will have to cut out? (probably almost all the tales altogether and just have the present pilgrimage?)
My main worry with it is going to be censorship. the past few years (ESPECIALLY since that 911 bunk) the movie industry has been playing around what they will/won't show. Somewhere along the line bright flashes and loud clashes became "scary" and seeing some sort of hideous creature or whatever was never shown. and graphic detail is virtually NEVER shown anymore. someone gets shot, you see them fall over dead with a tiny spit of blood on their lip or something. I praise AvP and RE2 for starting to bring a little bit of graphicness back.

Claus / Intromental said:
Read all his books - they all have something special about them. My favorite - besides the Hyperion/Endymion series - is Song Of Kali, which is so freaking scary!!!

I plan to read a great deal of them. I saw he has a lot of mystery style books ... I'm not really into that thing, but I spose I'll take a step or two out of hyperion and see what they are like.

I've got tons of other books i need to get through! Though I find myself able to read much faster fiction books, I prefer non-fiction stuff on physics/math/astronomy and ancient history.
 
enki3600 said:
Damn near after every page I read I keep thinking to myself "man, someone needs to make this into a movie!" However, a movie wouldn't do it justice. It'd have to be like a miniseries or something, because each "tale" could span an entire movie. (thus far anyway) or at least 2 per movie. I am wondering what they will have to cut out? (probably almost all the tales altogether and just have the present pilgrimage?)

As far as I've heard, he has got some big shot producer, a huge budget and an amazing cast of actors involved. I think Leonardo DiCaprio was mentioned as the main actor (which would be Raul, who is introduced in the Endymion books). There's a lot of talk on it on the official Dan Simmons forum.

enki3600 said:
I've got tons of other books i need to get through! Though I find myself able to read much faster fiction books, I prefer non-fiction stuff on physics/math/astronomy and ancient history.

Well, then you'll love his latest book, "Illium" - it takes it's basis in the Illiad, but weaves it into a science fiction drama of huge proportions. There's also quite a lot of Hyperion references to be found in it.

claus
intromental
 
Sweet. Now comes the hard part.... waiting! ARGH.

I spose it should give me ample time to finish the series off though :D
 
Aww man! Waiting is FUN! It's the patience you have to practice when you read great fiction. I was itching when I read Jurrasic Park and Lord of the Rings, cuz I needed to know what happens next! I'd haul ass home from school just to keep reading those. And when I read Steven Kings' The Eyes Of The Dragon, I was constantly questioning whether the events in the book would work... as if trying to guess how they would fail as opposed to succeed.

But I'm gonna finish up my reading before Christmas. I've got a few R.A. Salvatore books to see if I can hit as well. I'm quite unfamiliar with his work, and am jumping into it on a recommendation.


Burke - I'll warn ya now, man. Lars' voice is a tough pill to swallow to the casual listener. He's got such an eerie, haunting voice, almost sounding like Hansi Kursh from time to time. I've bled friends' ears with Hyperion, and they couldn't hear past the vocals. Fuckin cowards if you ask me. I'm loving Lars' voice cuz it's so damn unique and different! It's like.... you think of the world of music, and the most distinguishable voices. The voices you just can't mistake. Ozzy. Hetfield. Geddy. Sir Russell. MegaDave. Tobias. Sully Erna. Hansi. Hell... Ray Charles, Michael Jackson, Robert Plant, Bruce Springsteen and even Ol' Blue Eyes! Those are voices that I can spot out without even trying. Anybody could. And Lars' voice is certainly HIS voice, and no one else's.


And then.... there's the pure riffage EVIL of Manticora.... the things these guys come up with..... brilliance.