Mastering question, how much do you all push the limiter

[ForeverDawn]

Hey all, long time lurker and learner, first time mix poster.

I am currently working on a few songs and was wondering how hard do youall push the limiter in the mastering stage?

Here are two of the same mixes, one with the limiter pushed all to hell to get the "loudness" and upfrontness desired, but to me sounds clippy and kinda harsh

(file labeled limiter pushed)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/68332289/New Song 58-59-59 master 5 limiter pushed.mp3

The other, I pushed the limiter just to the point where it still has a tiny hint of dynamics

(file labeled still has dynamics)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/68332289/New Song 58-59-59 master 5 g 7 still has dynamics.mp3

The 2nd file to me does not sound as fatiguing but when compared to a track off of "Puritnaical Euphoric Misanthropia" or other similarly produced album, does not have enough upfrontness

I know this is not all done in the mastering stage but since I really don't know anything, how much do I have to go back and constantly refine my mix and how much should I push the mastering limiter harder?

Besides the obvious answer of "until it sounds good" I would like any input anyone has to offer.

I use fab filter pro L (used on this) but also have slates fgx

If its mostly just mixing and arrangement issues, I will repost at a later date when this song and others are 100% complete and I am at a total loss.

Thanks a ton in advance.

 

[ForeverDawn]

Unmastered wav just in case anyone wants to hear

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/68332289/New Song 58-59-59.wav

 

[infectdsniper]

error 403

 

[ForeverDawn]

error 403

what does this mean? You can not get to the files?

 

[ForeverDawn]

links updated/moved to public folder (sorry first time using drop box)

Should work now

 

[Blackrider]

I'm not very good at mastering but you should set plugins eq>comp (multiband is much better)>limiter. Don't forget to leave enough headroom in mix for mastering.
And this is from Petrucci for guitars; boost 2200 Hz and 6600 Hz 2-5 dB.

 

[Martin Linda]

There is some ugly distortion (reminds me some sort of bitcrusher) going on overheads noticeable even in the mix. Guitars are lacking some mids imho. And i would like to hear more bassguitar. Otherwise it is not bad. I use master limiter not taking more than 6dB ussually for this kind of music. But you have to smartly use a lot of compression on tracks and groups, use sidechains, etc. if you want to achieve such enregy as in mentioned Dimmu Borgir album and keep the clarity without distortion.

 

[ForeverDawn]

There is some ugly distortion (reminds me some sort of bitcrusher) going on overheads noticeable even in the mix. Guitars are lacking some mids imho. And i would like to hear more bassguitar. Otherwise it is not bad. I use master limiter not taking more than 6dB ussually for this kind of music. But you have to smartly use a lot of compression on tracks and groups, use sidechains, etc. if you want to achieve such enregy as in mentioned Dimmu Borgir album and keep the clarity without distortion.

lol the ugly distortion in the overheads is actually other distorted industrial noises (I am attempting to do a total fusion of industrial and black metal elements)

Perhaps sidechain the bass guitar to the kick? I will give that a try. I will also try the track compression. Should I compress one or 2 elements in each section that I want to stand out the most?

 

[cHiGhT]

I was going to mention that ugly distortion on the OH, It was the first thing I noticed.

 

[Martin Linda]

yes sidechaining bass with kick ussually helps to add some headroom, sometimes sidechain guitars with snare, or vocal also works.