Metal and Philosophy

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Its been some time since we've had a proper metal-inspired philosophy thread. Hence, I am quite interested in what attracted everyone here to metal. Was your decision to listen/play metal, some teenage desire to find music that glorifies and symbolizes individuality or rejection of popular society as I read Alice Cooper state in a interview? Was it a feeling or emotion that swept through your body when you first heard metal? Was it a friend or group of friends, that got you into it?

And also, how does metal fit in with your attraction to philosophy? Is it this rejection of popular society that has some appeal? The openly philosophical Black Metal element? What other reasons? I'm most interested in any findings.
 
I hear metal because I feel some things whith this musc that I feel in no other kind of music (sometimes in electronic music, but it's rare).

I'd grow wih Scorpions, Led Zepplin, Deep Purple and some other rock and hard rock bands hearing by my father. But the catch was whaen my uncle lend me Metropolis pt.2 by DREAM THEATER. It was in 2000 ans I was 12. I discover metal music with this band. The conception I have of this music is boud to this album : conceptual, phylosophic, epic and dark with a touch of hope. The emotion emanating from this music too important.

Except the black metal philosophy, I don't thik that metal philosophy is in agreement with a rejection of popular society. It's only the expression of a particular sensitivity.
 
I have only recently gotten into metal. I have never really liked any pop music, which I find to be too superficial as well as being repetitive and I never liked the topics which comprises most pop songs such as relationships and everyday stuff. I enjoy music which can be very melancholic or emotional, somewhat technical, and also themes which range from philosophical to deep psychiological insights.

I think that metal music is very diverse and also is a very powerful expression about life, death, and subjects which are of great importance to the individual and of great artistic worth. I will sometimes listen to metal which is heavy or "brutal" and mostly I choose to listen to stuff that "takes itself seriously".

I think one of the reasons why I first started getting into metal is because it is extreme in all of it's pursuits, and is heavier than any "hardrock" and can be more melancholic or emotive than most of rock's "softer" musical acts.
 
Its been some time since we've had a proper metal-inspired philosophy thread. Hence, I am quite interested in what attracted everyone here to metal. Was your decision to listen/play metal, some teenage desire to find music that glorifies and symbolizes individuality or rejection of popular society as I read Alice Cooper state in a interview? Was it a feeling or emotion that swept through your body when you first heard metal? Was it a friend or group of friends, that got you into it?

And also, how does metal fit in with your attraction to philosophy? Is it this rejection of popular society that has some appeal? The openly philosophical Black Metal element? What other reasons? I'm most interested in any findings.

It definately was far more the philosophical aspect and emotion than anything else. I got into it in a somewhat depressed time of my life - I would sit in my room most of the time somewhat meditating, somewhat being a stupid emo-kid, listening to Metallica and studying the lyrics and the theme expressed by both the nature of the music and the lyrics. The rejection of & revolt against modern society, and the nihilistic nature of the music was what really hit the core, even though I didn't know the words to put to it at that time. Now it is most certainly all the ideals, philosophy, and emotion within the music, the openly philosophical black metal element, the complete rejection of the modern disgust, the connection to the past and to nature, the heroic aspect, the "vir".
 
I am quite interested in what attracted everyone here to metal.
'Everlost part 1' and 'Lunar Strain', two songs by In Flames were two songs that layed the seeds to get me into metal. from there in about a year I got into Dark Tranquillity and so on. I had only heard bands on TV, ya know, 'rock music' n shit, and wanky american music, fast and angsty (like slipknot) til then, so this midtempo darker solid sound I heard in these couple songs made me more interested in bands than hiphop (at the time I was listening to Anti-Pop Consortium, Necro, Esham, etc. etc.)

Was your decision to listen/play metal, some teenage desire to find music that glorifies and symbolizes individuality or rejection of popular society
nope. lol I listened to enough non-commercial music back when I first heard a real metal song I liked, so I certainly didn't need metal to fill some counterculture niche.

Was it a feeling or emotion that swept through your body when you first heard metal?
nothing special, just the typical 'ooh i like how that sounds' thing.
 
I can attach no high-minded draw to the music like the philosophical or what have you. I was way into KISS when I was perhaps 8 or nine years old and finally heard some Black Sabbath, MC-5, Zepplin and such a couple years later and just instinctively liked that aggressive, heavy sound. Like many I also listened to the standard "rock" fare of the seventies and early eighties from Skynard, to Nugent to Kansas! Upon hearing VanHalen for the first time, about ten or eleven years old, I started to more eagerly pursue records myself and started to discover things like Ozzy's first solo album, Scorpions, more Sabbath, etc.

Then came the introduction to Iron Maiden and Judas Priest and a whole new door had been opened! To make this long story short, from that point on, I just pursued heavier, harder and darker things - though ideologically speaking, beyond a love of horror movies and war themes, I'm not sure I was honestly intellectually stimulated until perhaps my late teens and even then only marginally so. Somewhere along the way, I developed a strong contempt for religion and the soft-spined doctine it represented, and via the early Death Metal, Thrash and proto-Black Metal like Venom, etc, began to appreciate the more extreme philosophical angle running through the lyrics and imagery. It would probably be safe to say the first "real" philosophy I considered valuable was LaVey's Satanic Bible.

So by the later 1980's I was your standard angry, Satanic, religion-hating white guy who loathed everyone for no specific reason, drank too much and played in various bands, nurturing dreams of success and notoriety...sooner or later I realized a little maturity and responsibility weren't necessarily awful after all, and began to focus on career, etc. However, I never lost my love of the music or the message. Indeed, I only further developed my love of history, particularly of a military and political nature, and my contempt for the wishy-washy pablum of Judeo-christianity.

Over the years I followed, (sometimes at a distance, as my life had drifted far away from the Metal scene, etc - shirts and ties replaced Morbid Angel-T's:cry: ), the rise of second-gen. Black Metal and the even more radical ideals espoused therein and really find that style of music and much of the ideology most appealing to this day. I probably listen to BM, Blackened Thrash and Death Metal most of all(though I still love the classic stuff as well) and yes, I do tend to seek out that with which I have some ideological agreement, though that is not a prerequisite.

By and large I seek my intellectual and political fulfillment elsewhere and the music is still primarily entertainment to me. The agression, dissonance and power still speak to me artistically and emotionally just as it did 25 years ago. I listen to all kinds of music from blues to classical, but essentially extreme Metal makes up about 85% of my listening playlist.
 
Initially it was simply an attraction to the style. My father also listened to a substantial amount of heavy-metal/rock when I was a child, so it felt natural to pick up a Black Sabbath or Saxon record as a kid.

The older I've got the more diverse my musical interests have become. I still listen to metal more than any other genre and I find that I'll listen to anything musically outstanding and if the band happens to be interesting philosophically then it's a bonus and can add to my enjoyment of the music.

I stopped applying ideology to my music. I can listen to any sort of music, regardless of ethos, and still know where my own political allegiances are.
 
The ANUS piece is interesting, though to be very honest, as one who was there throughout much of this progression, it all looked a whole lot different having lived it first-hand.(I wonder if this all differs somewhat geographically, etc?) But I suppose that is often the case - the influential or even semi-revolutionary nature of things aren't always recognized real-time. I do struggle with the reality of how conscious any of this was though, as it all sounds perhaps a bit too romantic n retrospect. I am a born cynic though:rolleyes:
It is particularly telling, however, how the ANUS history differs from those recently offered-up by the VH-1, magazine and media crowd...now these versions I can assure any of the younger folks today, rarely(if ever) resemble anything I recall from those days and I was very active in the Metal 'scene' from about 1984-97 or so.


Useless Side-bar:
I particularly get a kick out the importance they've placed on the band Morpheus (later Morpheus Descends) in 'Brutal' Death Metal's development, as many of the band members were friends of mine here in New York in their early years...small world and all that. I knew them when...:lol: :headbang:
 
The ANUS piece is interesting, though to be very honest, as one who was there throughout much of this progression, it all looked a whole lot different having lived it first-hand.(I wonder if this all differs somewhat geographically, etc?) But I suppose that is often the case - the influential or even semi-revolutionary nature of things aren't always recognized real-time. I do struggle with the reality of how conscious any of this was though, as it all sounds perhaps a bit too romantic n retrospect. I am a born cynic though:rolleyes:
It is particularly telling, however, how the ANUS history differs from those recently offered-up by the VH-1, magazine and media crowd...now these versions I can assure any of the younger folks today, rarely(if ever) resemble anything I recall from those days and I was very active in the Metal 'scene' from about 1984-97 or so.


Useless Side-bar:
I particularly get a kick out the importance they've placed on the band Morpheus (later Morpheus Descends) in 'Brutal' Death Metal's development, as many of the band members were friends of mine here in New York in their early years...small world and all that. I knew them when...:lol: :headbang:

Ive never heard of Morpheus before, but its cool you know them.
 
Ive never heard of Morpheus before, but its cool you know them.

I actually played in a band with one of the old guitarists, and the bass player, Andy(now of Typhus) used to sell me tons of second wave Black Metal when he was still in NY. By god...that seems a lifetime ago...
It is very cool to see them recognized thus!
 
Its been some time since we've had a proper metal-inspired philosophy thread. Hence, I am quite interested in what attracted everyone here to metal. Was your decision to listen/play metal, some teenage desire to find music that glorifies and symbolizes individuality or rejection of popular society as I read Alice Cooper state in a interview? Was it a feeling or emotion that swept through your body when you first heard metal? Was it a friend or group of friends, that got you into it?

And also, how does metal fit in with your attraction to philosophy? Is it this rejection of popular society that has some appeal? The openly philosophical Black Metal element? What other reasons? I'm most interested in any findings.

I got into it as a teen, because of how sheerly energetic and emotionally intense it was. I was a bored teen and stumbled into this world probably like many of you here. Death and thrash metal felt right with me and it clicked right away. Sepultura and Obituary are one of the first bands I got into. I fantasized about making a band, but it didnt happen because I have little talent when it comes to music.

Most metal is based on romanticism and its 2 major themes are emotion and fantasy with darker themes. I delved into it based on the sensations it gave me and I really didnt think of its more intellectual-side until later on with critics giving explanations for it which made me go "ahh, well said". I still listen to it to indulge into the whole atmosphere of it.

On its idealogy, metal has been called Nietzschean because it seems to question traditional religious values (i.e. Morbid Angel, Slayer, Incantation) by obsessing on evil and darkness. As Deena Weinstein put it, metal does so to question what really is profound and profane because that seems to have broken down.
 
I think I enjoy music for the thoughts and feelings it inspires. I have found very little outside the realms of metal that I find creates any atmosphere I am interested in - it all sounds watered down and mundane in comparison. There are some notable exceptions - Dido is probably the most striking one :lol:

Woods of Ypres is really the only metal with philosophical lyrical content I find particularly interesting.

The metal / 'rejection of popular society' thing is interesting - a bit chicken and egg-ish. I believe I am able to enjoy more 'extreme' elements in music because I do not attempt to assess it's value through society's eyes, just my own. But I also think metal has probably helped my own realisation that societal norms can be fairly pointless and valueless, in an absolute sense.
 
Age 9 (1984): Steal a cassette dub of Van Halen - 1984 from the older brother of the first kid I met after moving to a new town.
Age 10 (1984): Get Twisted Sister - Stay Hungry for my birthday.
Age 13 (1987): Pick up Guns 'n Roses - Appetite for Destruction. Decide "Metal" might not be a bad thing.
Age 13 (1987): Purchase Megadeth - Peace Sells...But Who's Buying? I am blown away buy its speed. I can barely make out the notes, but I love the feeling it provides.
Age 14 (1988): I hear Sepultura - Inner Strength on the first run of Headbanger's Ball...realize what "heavy" is.

******************

I know this does not answer the original query...but I don't know that there is a suitable answer.
 
For me it was the music. I started out with the drums and guitar listening to Grunge, Rock and Punk. When I started listening to maiden, tallica, sonata, kreator, my tastes changed.

Metal is like a whole new portal by itself, true freedom of choice, expression and art. Unlike any other genre, it comes with the technical, the funny, the weird, the strange, the melodic, the agressive, the bored, the stoned, the angry..and there are musicians who write songs dealing with interesting concepts of the world, as well as those happy-go-lucky dealing with love and what not. Its basically all-in-one.

In my view, Metal is to the music world as Open-source is to the IT world.

Some say metal is serious, well to an extent yes. There are funny metal like korpiklaani, but its all in the name of joy and not chicks and dough like most MTV bands. It is seriously for the ears and the people. What sets Metal apart from other music and culture is the diverse audience and themes. There are hooligans, gangsters, doctors, scientists, mafiosos, mothers, models, lawyers who claim to be "true Metalheads". Metal can bring chaos like underground Hardcore and Punk, but it can also bring upon a good classic time like expensive Jazz and Classical concerts sometimes targetting blue-blooded ladies and gentlemen. There is also MTV Metal and that adds to the unique field of the genre as a whole, though some bands clearly do not add any significant credit (they do not sound like we need them).

Now the thing about these so-called Poser bands such as in Nu Metal and Metalcore, it's actually just about "ruining the picture". You see, when things such as music labelling start, music is defined wrongly. You have Linkin Park claiming to be Nu Metal just by fusing simple heavy guitar riffs with the turntable. Sure it's a great innovation but there wasn't a need to call that Metal. Now why do I say that? Because if one really wants to label, then label correctly and listen to a wide range of fans and what they think your music sounds like.

Then you have Metalcore. Few bands are really good, but I'd rather call them simply Death Metal because they are mostly that and less core. Others, well, I think they should've stuck to Hardcore Punk. Sum 41 has got Metal sounds, but they don't claim to be an entire Metal band of any sort. Already Dave Baksh has left/is leaving the band to pursue a "Metal career". I think labelling is good, but not when it gets out of hand. It seems almost every culture wants a part in Metal just for the sake of it, whether you sound Metal or not. Then again the definition of "Heavy Metal" can be different from one person to another.

Then there is the culture. Wait, I see geeks and side-zippers. So that means, all the culture needs is appreciation and headbanging, or just sitting and nodding. Long hair, leather jackets, eyeliner, pentagrams, some wear it to be part of the culture and others because they know what they're wearing and for what purpose. There are the elistists and Black Metal supremacists, but I don't blame them because they know what they live for. The Metalcore/Emocore kids took on the eyeliner, studded belts, black colour to be a fashion sense and absolutely monopolised the teenage world. So much so, that it is almost a uniform and a monotonous youth. How diverse and interesting can Metal appear then if a so-called self-proclaimed sub-genre attracts more attention-seeking teenagers than music-appreciative ones?

Themes in Metal can range from Mutilation and Death to Hunting and Food to Dancing and Fantasy. Where else do you find such variety? Let's not get into the technicality of those technical metal bands. As Metal itself takes roots from Blues, Jazz and Classical, many prominent musicians are skilled in almost a variety of instruments. Many of us have idolised one of them at some point of our lives. There are very talented people in the Metal scene, as well as very well-educated and established too.

I personally love some Metal music for their ability to blend melody & aggression, thoughts, anger, happiness & sadness altogether. I listen to all kinds of Metal, except for those I deem unsuitable for my ears. I do not see Metal as a window to self-expression, I see it as self-indulgence. I do not hate any kind of music, I just have my tastes like everyone else. I also love Techno, Electronic, Trance, Folk, Classical, Country. However, I find all those in Metal too! I listen to Pop, yes. When a tune sounds nice, it's music afterall. Let me add something about Metalcore again, LOL: well gore/growl and a sudden breakdown to some clean boyband-like singing just doesn't sound really nice. Not all recipes end up as delicious treats.
 
I was first a techno-freak and stuff like that then someone introduced me to slipknot, I was instantly hooked and then it evolved into other forms of metal, first viking and black metal, then doom and death, and now I listen to anything.

I am one of the only metal heads in my entire school which sucks, the laughter that I hear every day because of my music choice is very anoying, no where near appealing.
 
My journey started on a saturday night when I was 11 or 12 and flipping through the stations I came across Headbangers Ball with Adam Currey hosting, I was kinda a fan of heavy rock at the time (Y&T, Tesla) and the video for Indians by the band Anthrax came on and the chrous hooked me, the next day I went out to Record Town and bought Among the living and at frist the music-chugging guitars, speed is what I liked but I began reading lyrics, Indians-about social injustice brought upon the Indians, etc. After that I started watching HBB every sat and taping the good videos, slowly I got into other bands like Megadeth, Testament, Metallica(not so much at first), Laaz Rocket, etc. I think it helped funnel my agression. I ended up being a in bands throughout my late teens and early twenties-death metal and thrash core. At some point I realized I wouldnt become a rock star and decided focusing on finding a career, even though I grew up the music never left me. Now I am into bands like INto Eternity, Lamb Of God, All that remains
 
I was first a techno-freak and stuff like that then someone introduced me to slipknot, I was instantly hooked and then it evolved into other forms of metal, first viking and black metal, then doom and death, and now I listen to anything.

I am one of the only metal heads in my entire school which sucks, the laughter that I hear every day because of my music choice is very anoying, no where near appealing.

Well, a snappy and dumbfounding comment to make is, "Nearly all the artists that I listen to could play every song you listen to, can you say the say the same about 'artist they like'... didn't think so. Now shut the hell up, you'll seem smarter that way."
 
Well, a snappy and dumbfounding comment to make is, "Nearly all the artists that I listen to could play every song you listen to, can you say the say the same about 'artist they like'... didn't think so. Now shut the hell up, you'll seem smarter that way."

what the hell are you talking about?