Metal Evolution

[Harvester]

I know there has to be a few of you out there that have been watching this 11-part documentary series on VH1 Classics.

I think Sam Dunn is brilliant. I think he is about as close to being "one of us" as we will see in the media. Eddie Trunk can lick his balls.

Anyhow, just a few thoughts/critiques on a few of the episodes:

Pre-Metal: Honestly, I just didn't find myself caring that much.

Early Metal Part 1- US Division: I had no idea how insane MC5 were as a live band. Those few minutes made me search out other clips and I'm in awe of what they were doing way back then.

Early Metal Part 2- UK Division: He could have stuck this one with the Pre-Metal episode and I would have been fine with it.

NWoBHM- He stuck to the mainstream biggies for the majority. It would have been nice to see a bit more on the tons of others that were great. I mean there is only so much Diamonhead I want to hear about.

Glam- The main vibe given off from all the bands was "It was a hell of a time and I'm glad we were a part of it." There was no real bitterness over the way it crashed and my respect increased for several of those interviewed as a result.

Thrash- Did Blitz piss him off? I don't recall any mention of Overkill during that episode, let alone any focus. I know there are time limitations, but he really skipped over all but the biggies or those still active. Death Angel..bah.

Grunge- I make no secret of being one of the biggest Pearl Jam fans on the planet. I enjoyed a lot of grunge (save Nirvana) so I was pumped to see this. However, I'll be the first to admit that most of the dudes came away as pretentious, ungrateful whiny bitches. Bonus points for the Mother Love Bone footage. Negative points for no Pearl Jam interviews (save the Brendan O'Brien, producer).

Nu-Metal: Never thought about "Roots" being the first Nu-metal disc. Durst is still a douchebag and is 100% responsible for the Woodstock riot regardless of his claims. I liked how Jonathan Davis called him out on it. Linkin Park still make my teeth hurt.

Still to come: Shock Rock, Power Metal, Progressive Metal.

Btw, I tried to contact Sam via his website back when his first film hit. I had hoped to bring him to the festival as my guest (yes, expenses paid). I never heard back. Guess we aren't big enough to get his attention.

 

[DuchessOfDork]

Looking forward to seeing the Power and Progressive Metal portions! Unfortunately, when it comes to getting a metal education, your best friend (and worst enemy) is probably the internet.

I'd still like to watch what you saw, though. (And perhaps discover if Mark Osegueda and I are related??)

 

[Sir Exar Kun]

I have thoroughly enjoyed this series, even the episodes focusing on areas of metal I have had little to no interest in (the early era, grunge, nu-metal). It is so well done for what it is that I could watch Sam create a documentary about making bread, and I'd sit through an hour of it.

I cannot wait to see the last couple episodes. I had heard awhile back that Orphaned Land was interviewed for this, and it will blow my mind if I see OL on VH-1!

 

[dcowboys311]

Heh, I remember getting slammed on this board a couple of years ago for making a similar comment re: Roots & nu-metal.

I think the whole thrash metal episode was incredibly weak. Where was Kreator? Destruction? Sodom? Only the 3 biggest bands in one of the most popular 'sounds' of thrash metal. Admittedly they pale in popularity to Metallica, Slayer, etc. But including Lamb of God in a thrash history episode over Kreator? Come on. Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember mention of the incredibly influential S. American scene either...although a lot of that might be better suited for a 'black metal' episode.

Still the best metal show on TV. Are there gonna be episodes about death, black, and doom metal?

 

[Harvester]

Still the best metal show on TV. Are there gonna be episodes about death, black, and doom metal?

Nope. My assumption is that is because death & black were both covered a bit more extensively in his two films.

As for doom, nobody cares.

 

[Diabolik]

I read somewhere that he got picked up for a few more episodes. So who knows...there may be a doom one in the works. There is a chart on the titles that has it listed.

I think the show is interesting and well done but he seems almost scared to cover non large bands in each genre.

The NWOBHM one was such a joke. They spent more time showing punk clips and talking about the punks vs metal stuff than discussing the actual bands and scene.

For anyone interested in seeing more about what was going on in that area back then....I highly recommend checking out the DVD Iron Maiden and the NWOBHM. It covers a lot of Maiden, Diamond Head, Preist, Def Lepard, Praying Mantis, and Tygers of Pan Tang. Lots of interesting interviews and what not.

The Thrash one was good but sorry Glenn. Overkill were not a thrash band that many liked or innovating. I think they are a great band and I was a big fan back in the 80's but at that time most hated them since his vocals were in the high range. They did deserve a mention.....along with tons of other bands in the Bay Area. Nuclear Assault were another band over looked in this episode.

I think the issue for me is that he is trying to cover too much to quickly. I know he has time and money resraints but he skipped over so much in each genre. I also question his knowledge because no one I have ever heard calls NWOBHM ...newwoobah. Also he has made some comments that made it seem that he got into metal in the late 90's and cant relate to lots of stuff that was happening in the 80's. Still a good watch.

 

[Mardoch]

Didn't really know this was going on. I habitually ignore VH1 as hard as possible.

I'll have to look into this though. I love Sam Dunn.

 

[Harvester]

The Thrash one was good but sorry Glenn. Overkill were not a thrash band that many liked or innovating. I think they are a great band and I was a big fan back in the 80's but at that time most hated them since his vocals were in the high range. They did deserve a mention....

I'm not arguing they were huge, influential, or anything, but to skip them and give Death Angel all sorts of props is horseshit. I would assume they were included simply because of geographic approximation & political correctness/nad scratching with Nuclear Blast.


I'm not sure what you can base your "Most" claim on in regards to Overkill other than the circle of friends you ran with pre-internet days? They had the same type of media coverage in Hit Parader, Circus, and Rip Magazine as Death Angel did. They charted with "Years of Decay" (12 spots lower than Death Angel to be specific one year apart) and were on the Ball constantly with "Hello from the Gutter" & "Elimination."

I agree with you on Nuclear Assault totally.

 

[Comic Book Dude]

Grunge- I make no secret of being one of the biggest Pearl Jam fans on the planet. I enjoyed a lot of grunge (save Nirvana) so I was pumped to see this. However, I'll be the first to admit that most of the dudes came away as pretentious, ungrateful whiny bitches. Bonus points for the Mother Love Bone footage. Negative points for no Pearl Jam interviews (save the Brendan O'Brien, producer).

Yep...I was never a fan of grunge, and seeing this episode solidified my dislike. It could've been the editing, but these dudes really came off obnoxiously.
Over all, I've enjoyed this series. I really appreciate how Sam will be totally up front about his dislike for a subject (glam, grunge), but still explores it pretty much objectively.
Side note- I was disappointed that there was no mention of Uriah Heep in the early British metal episode.

 

[arnavut]

I'm not arguing they were huge, influential, or anything, but to skip them and give Death Angel all sorts of props is horseshit. I would assume they were included simply because of geographic approximation & political correctness/nad scratching with Nuclear Blast.


I'm not sure what you can base your "Most" claim on in regards to Overkill other than the circle of friends you ran with pre-internet days? They had the same type of media coverage in Hit Parader, Circus, and Rip Magazine as Death Angel did. They charted with "Years of Decay" (12 spots lower than Death Angel to be specific one year apart) and were on the Ball constantly with "Hello from the Gutter" & "Elimination."

I agree with you on Nuclear Assault totally.

Good point. Also Overkill was much bigger in Europe than Death Angel back in those days. He is giving too much coverage for the origin of the genre. He did that for Hair metal for LA as well. It might be for budgetary reasons though as he goes on locations for interview. Going over to East cast for Overkill or to Germany for Kreator or Sodom would cost some money.

 

[DuchessOfDork]

As for doom, nobody cares.

This made me LOL IRL.

 

[spag]

My take on his lack of coverage for lesser known bands has probably got something to do with someone else holding the purse strings. He did his first movie. Awesome. He did what he wanted. Now, he's been giving this great opportunity to go out and do this big series, but I'm sure he's not the one calling all the shots. He probably knows if he strays too far from the relative mainstream, that fewer will watch, and he'll lose the chance to do more. Given that he is personally into thrash, I can only think that obvious omissions are deliberate. JMHO.

I like his stuff though. I applaud him for bringing some of this back into the spotlight. It's been a long time since a decent metal documentary was done. Decline and Fall of Western Civ II being the last I can remember.

If anyone hasn't seen them, the BBC's Seven Ages Of Rock, while not metal based, is incredible as well.

 

[actordude]

So far, I've enjoyed the series more than I've hated it, which says something in my own little bubble I tend to live in.

Glenn - I agree that Sam is about as close to any of "us" as you'll see on TV. That said and given his particular personal tastes in metal, I am shocked that he hasn't even returned a call to you, let alone hit the festival. Hell, the guy went to Germany to attend Wacken. I would think ProgPower would have him salivating as its right here on the home front. He's missing out!! LOL.

 

[oldboy]

I suspect that this will be released on DVD and that many of the more obscure bands will be there (longer running time compare to the TV edition, bonus scenes, etc...)

 

[J. Golden]

The show flows like a Metal for Dummies Book or Cliffnotes. Nothing here is anything that the metal novas should not already know or could not easily figure out. Something about it just comes off as a fanboy telling us how cool he is because he is hanging out with Bruce Dickinson and I’m sure that impresses someone out there. No Sam does not come off as the total douche that Eddie Trunk does but it won’t be long now. Personally I think Deena Weinstien should have a show before either of these two clowns.
• The first episode started fine with a steady stride. And the second kepy up the pace.
• I have yet to see the 3rd episode. I’m guessing it is the less popular since it never seem to be re-shown….
• The N.W.O.B.H.M episode was painful to watch. I know Maiden has to be talked about but wasn’t there already a whole movie worshipping at the ballsack of? And Joe Elliot is almost as big of a turd as Bono but I guess he has to be there too. I did not expect the guy to talk about Toad the Wet Sprocket but to brush over Angel Witch and Samson is just wrong. I have met and know NWOBHM fans that are way deeper into it than me and to some that movement is all that matters; I am sure they would all agree when I say Sam why bother?
• The glam episode was ok. I think all the guys interviewed came off as pretty down to earth about things and how things transpired especially Rikki. However I did not like how it seemed that Sam basically suggestion that the remains of the genre basically lives on in county fairs when there is a number of bands out there in this same “fashion”. Needless to mention that glam wasn’t only L.A. Mr. Dunn were the fuck was Hanoi Rocks?
• The thrash episode was simply terrible; no Kreator no credibility period. And the ‘Black Album” and death of thrash in the early 90s gave rise to death metal? WTF? Oh he said “rise to” not birthed or created because the first Death was ’87 and some might stretch it and say Possessed for coining the term.
• Could break this down and rip this to shreds but it is as boring as the show
• The grudge episode just seemed funny to me. Though I see the heaviness of Soundgarden, Tad, and The Melvins the genre still fits into heavy metal loosely but then again glam does extremely. Besides The Melvins, Kim, and few few other interviews most everyone seemed quite pertinacious and winey that the spotlight on their coffee shop is no longer there. Get over it. And as for those bands like Creed well why even put thought into it?
• The nu metal I have caught at various times enough to piece it all or if not most of it together. The idea of nu metal was bound to happen it was just an evolution or rather mutation that was going to happen. Now was Prong anywhere in this episode? And did Sam mention fellow Canadians Mordrid by chance?
This show is no different than anything else one ever sees talking about the metal, it is elementary at best. I just hope one day someone comes forward to represent this genre and actually does it justice for a change.

Pass thought;
Guys like Trunk and Dunn being authorities on the subject is the blind leading the blind.

 

[J. Golden]

As for doom, nobody cares.

I'd much rather see doom over power metal any day if it were done to it's fullest potential that is. Doom metal goes in so many directions and one of the only true "progressive" sub-genres in metal. But I suppose how I think that power metal is the must bland uninspired sub-genres in heavy metal (certainly in recent years) so could doom be seen that way to those who don't know the genre.

 

[Metal_Camden]

I'd much rather see doom over power metal any day if it were done to it's fullest potential that is. Doom metal goes in so many directions and one of the only true "progressive" sub-genres in metal. But I suppose how I think that power metal is the must bland uninspired sub-genres in heavy metal (certainly in recent years) so could doom be seen that way to those who don't know the genre.

haha I know you don't like it but that's a pretty far leap to call it the "most bland uninspired sub-genres in metal" even with its track record in recent years.

To each their own. I actually caught my first d00m band a month or so ago... it was really. doomy. I felt like the venue was going to collapse.

 

[dcowboys311]

Right but you have to understand that this isn't 'metal for people who spend all day on the internet talking about metal and running labels and booking shows and downloading/buying too many albums', it's 'metal for VH1 viewers'. Quite a difference and worlds ahead of Eddie Trunk. People should know about the roots before you get TOO deep into a genre and this is a tv show with limited time. An introduction to nu-metal is going to be just that -- an introduction. I don't even know who the fuck Mordred is and I grew up listening to nu-metal (well until I turned 13 or so).

 

[Diabolik]

I'm not arguing they were huge, influential, or anything, but to skip them and give Death Angel all sorts of props is horseshit. I would assume they were included simply because of geographic approximation & political correctness/nad scratching with Nuclear Blast.


I'm not sure what you can base your "Most" claim on in regards to Overkill other than the circle of friends you ran with pre-internet days? They had the same type of media coverage in Hit Parader, Circus, and Rip Magazine as Death Angel did. They charted with "Years of Decay" (12 spots lower than Death Angel to be specific one year apart) and were on the Ball constantly with "Hello from the Gutter" & "Elimination."

I agree with you on Nuclear Assault totally.

very true....they were more talked about in magainzes and they were on a lot of the big tours back then. But to disagree....I had zero circle of freinds who were into metal. My comment was based on people who I talk to who were around also back then who were also into thrash. I do remember in highschool when Megadeth / Overkill was in town. Lots of kids in my class who went were complaining about how bad Overkill is. Even lots of reviews back then never gave them much credit.

I agree....Death Angel didnt deserve to be on there. I am sure it was because of availability and stuff like that.

for anyone who is interested in music docs need to check out Get Thrashed. it is the ultimate doc on thrash metal. Very well done with really good interviews. The best part on the DVD is the world map where you can select countries and states and see different bands from that area with sound samples and stuff.

 

[Diabolik]

Right but you have to understand that this isn't 'metal for people who spend all day on the internet talking about metal and running labels and booking shows and downloading/buying too many albums', it's 'metal for VH1 viewers'. Quite a difference and worlds ahead of Eddie Trunk. People should know about the roots before you get TOO deep into a genre and this is a tv show with limited time. An introduction to nu-metal is going to be just that -- an introduction. I don't even know who the fuck Mordred is and I grew up listening to nu-metal (well until I turned 13 or so).

hahahahahahaa...newbie.

Mordred where a power metal band from the late 80's early 90's who switched over genres and added a DJ spinster guy. They were a great band then turned to shit. Saw them live with Nuclear Assault.



here is a better song