Minimizing bleed when recording toms

[drew_drummer]

Hey guys,

Tips on minimizing bleed when recording the toms? Last time I did them, the floor tom came out really cack, and the signal to noise ratio was shit; I've managed to save it by gating the tom from midi signals, and blending with the overheads... but ideas on how to capture the best signal?

I'm fairly competent with the kick, snare, and overheads, but the tom tracks I recorded were pants. Looking to try out some new things during the recording process - was thinking about micing up the bottom of the toms, good idea?

Any help would be wonderful

 

[C_F_H_13]

Probably not the answers you want, but here's my suggestions.

1. The biggest thing is it comes down to the drummer. The harder they hit the toms, the less gain you need, the lower the bleed will be. Out of all the things drummers do, this is the one that drives me nuts.

2. The other thing is microphone placement. I spend a bit of time finding a spot that'll yield the least amount of bleed from for example the ride. Sometimes it's just a matter of turning the microphone slightly.

 

[if6was9]

Yeah aiming the null point of your mics towadrs the cymbals helps.

Raising the cymbals helps too, if the drummers on board with it- the further away they are the less bleed you'll get.

 

[ahjteam]

I really have nothing else to say but keep the cymbals as far away from the tom mics as possible and aim the mics so that there is no cymbals behind the mic. I got pretty minimal bleed with Sennheiser e604's when I recorded the drums for this (see the multitrack drumfiles in the first post): http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/production-tips/483993-idea-compare-our-techniques.html

 

[drew_drummer]

Aim the mics so that there is no cymbals behind the mic?? Isn't behind the mic where the null point would usually be?? I know the pattern of the mic changes this, but generally speaking, I think that's a decent rule of thumb. So surely I'd want the cymbals mostly behind the mics?

Anyway, what I found mostly to be the problem was the kick drum bleeding into the floor tom; the rack toms were fairly decent looking back at the waveforms; it's the floor tom that was pure shod!!

Thanks for the advice. I'll spend more time this time around, with my mic placement.

 

[Erkan]

Yea I have problem with this too and I'm trying to mitigate it by hitting harder on the toms... it's really something I need to work on. Back to basics, practise simple fill ins but hit those fuckers like you mean it!

 

[ahjteam]

Aim the mics so that there is no cymbals behind the mic?? Isn't behind the mic where the null point would usually be??

Propably, but the reflections still exist

 

[drew_drummer]

Goji: I'm not the one drumming this time round

Our drummer/band is quite dynamic, so I don't think hitting them harder is the answer. Maybe I should setup something so that the reflections don't bounce back into the microphones; stack some boxes behind the drummer perhaps?? I'll give a few things ago!! Thanks everyone.

 

[lolzgreg]

My recommendations:

a. GATE THE TOMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (or automate, or edit out "non-hits")
b. Move cymbals up further.
c. Use mics with tightest pickup pattern and keep the capsule as far away from the cymbals as possible.

This was all pretty much said, but recap. Also, you could sample the kit and use a sample replacer for the toms!

 

[lordtech]

i would just sample the toms.

 

[PostMortem1666]

Just manually cut out the bleed. More effective than a gate most of the time IME.

 

[if6was9]

Actually no- if they hit the tom harder then to have it peaking at -5 you've to turn your gain down or it could clip- therefore your tom hit is now at -5 but since you turned the gain down the bleed is at -25. therefore with the drummer hitting harder you've less bleed. i think your missing the point that the source won't stay at -5 if the drummer hits harder