Mixing and mastering with headphones

[Rockchops]

Hey!, Though I've been reading the forum for some time now, this would be my first post

Unfortunately, I'm unable to afford some decent monitors by now, but I've been using headphones for a while, some AKG K141, can't complain, enough for me.
But when I'm done mixing with the headphones, when I hear it thru the speakers I'm using now(VERY lame), my perception of the whole mix changes drasticly, and definitly for worse, hehe, a lot of frequencies are lost, less "air" in general, and a bunch of other stuff, the same happens whem I'm mastering.
So the question would be...Would you mix a song relying just on the headphones? and not going thru any speakers at all?
Thanks in advance

 

[Metaltastic]

I think the general consensus would be "no," but I feel if you got some really good headphones (apparently the semi-open ones, rather than fully closed-back/sealed, are better for actual mixing on) for the majority of the scrutiny, and just checked on whatever speakers you use to casually listen to music, you could get by for awhile.

 

[aramism]

i read an article some time ago that just based on the sheer proximity of the drivers to your ears you are getting a totally different perspective. so i'm not sure. everytime i've attempted to mix on headphones it never comes out good the relative levels are waaay different. i just use them to hear "critical" non mixing thigns like performance, clicks, weird noises, etc... for things like that headphones are nearly essential.

 

[SpewChunks]

I don't have decent monitors aswell so i generally mix in headphones, but there is a vst called hdphx that you can use that applies the haas effect to simulate speakers placed at 30 degrees in your headphones. It's at http://refinedaudiometrics.com/products-hdphx.shtml you should check it out. It definently helps to put the placement of things in the mix into proper perspective. Still i'd rather monitors times 1000.

 

[siegfried]

I think that it is far better to mix on good headphones that on shitty speakers. But, don´t stay with headphones too long, I does it and when I purchased decent monitors I was very confused (It is sooo different). Mastering? Uh, if you cannot afford lowend monitors, than... well, do it for fun, why not

 

[ISRDaniel]

Ive actually done this alot due to lack of money and i find that the vocals seems much louder and dominant once you swap to speakers? anyone had the same thing occurring?

 

[Aaron Smith]

I don't think I've ever made any panning or spacial judgments in a mix based solely on headphone listening...but actually I don't think I've ever made any type of judgment based solely on one listening source. I have a pair of the Sony MDR-7506 headphones, which I know a lot of people don't like or claim as having an overly hyped top end, but I've never really found them to be too extremely bright or too exaggerated. Maybe I feel that way just because I'm already so used to the way they sound, though! I would say feel free to use headphones all you want as a secondary listening source, but there are no advantages to using just headphones...

 

[Metaltastic]

Ive actually done this alot due to lack of money and i find that the vocals seems much louder and dominant once you swap to speakers? anyone had the same thing occurring?

Actually I tend to notice the opposite...and also I find I don't put enough reverb/delay on stuff when using headphones, because they make it much more perceptible.

 

[colonel kurtz]

I think that it is far better to mix on good headphones that on shitty speakers

see, i personally think the opposite...i'd rather have crappy little speakers to mix on, knowing that if the mix sounds decent on them, it'll probably sound work anywhere, whereas headphone mixes will be compleeeeeeeeeeetely different when coming out of speakers

 

[ISRDaniel]

see, i personally think the opposite...i'd rather have crappy little speakers to mix on, knowing that if the mix sounds decent on them, it'll probably sound work anywhere, whereas headphone mixes will be compleeeeeeeeeeetely different when coming out of speakers

have to second on this one.

Acctually did one mix on some pretty good ass headphones, and one on baaaaad pc speakers from the early 90s and i find the speaker mix to be better.

 

[Sloan]

I think it's all relative.
If you wear the same phones all the time and listen to a shit ton of music through them and they're your reference to the world of recorded music, then go ahead and mix in them.
It doesn't matter how you mix - a good mix is a good mix.

 

[TeamOmega]

i read an article some time ago that just based on the sheer proximity of the drivers to your ears you are getting a totally different perspective. so i'm not sure. everytime i've attempted to mix on headphones it never comes out good the relative levels are waaay different. i just use them to hear "critical" non mixing thigns like performance, clicks, weird noises, etc... for things like that headphones are nearly essential.

this seems like the most logical way to go. when i was in a high end mastering studio getting something mastered, the guy would do the majority of it listening through some nice monitors, and after he got his settings down, he would check them through headphones to make sure everything was right.

 

[el-biczel]

I must agree with Sloan.
But I'd like to add, that frequency response is much more reliable when using high-end headphones than when using cheap monitors in non-treated room. So you can use eq more effectively. On the other hand you can't pan really well in headphones so you have to check the mix in tone of different places.
Summing up, if you don't have much money, I'd go with really good headphones, like Beyer Dynamic dt990 or AKG K240, and put some effort to check the mix in different places.

 

[Razvan]

I also agree with sloan. it hapens that I too mix over the headphones simply because of the fact that if I buy a pair of monitors I don't have the necessary space to hang/place them. And so I'm usin a pair of Beyerdynamic DT770 I use all the time I spent an computer doing some other stuff and listening to music. In fact that created me a sixth sense, I mean I can draw at any time on a paper the way instruments are panned in a song, some levels, etc. Afterward I always check it on some other poor model headphones, that kind iPod use or in drastic decision making on some monitors my friend has, some KrK's.

It might not be the right way, but hopefully I developed myself that way.

But hey, just a piece of hint: always check your ear health with an ORL specialist, audiometry and so on. It is known that in an hour the level of germs grown in your ear covered with headphones is almost 700%. No joke, check Google if any doubt. And the eardrum health also. It's better to mix for not more than 30 minutes and have a 10 minute total silence if you could in between.

 

[mintcheerios]

Bulb mixes on a pair of 60 dollar headphones and his mixes sound great.

SS: I love your tones & mixes, what do you monitor with? What models of headphones & monitor speakers?

Bulb: I always get a bit nervous answering questions like this because it seems to me that expectations play too large a part in the whole "gear" debate. The truth is I still mix on a paid of 60 dollar headphones by Audio Technica. They are supposedly flat response, and they are close, but definitely no cigar. So far it has seemed like when I dont tell people what i mix on they think my mixes sound good, but the second iI tell them i mix on headphones (or let them know THAT I use a PodXT and not a miced amp, or Drumkit From Hell and not real drums) then it all of a sudden becomes too apparent, its completely psychological, haha. At any rate I cant really afford any monitors right now, but someday soon I would like to get a nice set, because once I get used to those, I know I will be able to mix a lot more efficiently and accurately on them.

 

[RiF]

Unfortunately, I didn't had success doing decent mixes with my monitors (pretty cheap passive Tannoy Reveals) nor with my headphones (AKG K401). The only audio source where I can detect mixing problems (vocals too loud/too quit, too much/less reverb etc.) is my car stereo (standard Audi A4 2008 "concert" car stereo). I am no professional mixer/me, but that's my experience by now. I know that this would/could change by buying better monitors or headphones which might be out of my budget range.
That didn't help you...Sorry...

 

[siegfried]

RiF: if I look at your luxury gear list in your signature I must say... it is probably about priorities