Mixing/recording questions I hope you can answer.

[Klosure]

1. How do you judge the correct level of punchyness without it sounding - overly punchy.

2. In relation to question one you might make a mix punchy for definition but how do you know when you should be cutting frequencys rather than turning down an instrument.

3. How do you get the bass, center of the mix to have that quality to it that feels tight and energetic and not flat. I have tried hi passing the lowes on various tracks ie 50hz to 100hz depending on what I feel needs it etc but I find that only does about 20% of what I am after. There is a much more intense centre on reference albums I have.


4. Do you have any luck with Bass IR's? What do you use for a pre amp, and software suggestions?

5. Usually I find guitars I record even if I use an IR and a good pre amp gives me thin guitars but I have noticed much more bottom end on stuff - but I appreciate its not dropping below 100hz much - How to you get this to work?



I am working hard at the moment to get some depth definition and strenth to my mixes. I still find my mixes tend to feel flat. It could be that its my source/tracking stage, I am trying to get good bass guitars recorded but even when I think I have I feel something lets me down - I've tried several different bass guitars but I never get the clarity that I hear on professional albums - I do the usual 1I 1xAMP sim and 1 x distortion and try blending together.

But whenever I get to guitars its just not gelling the way I had hoped and the guitars feel overpowering or just not in with the mix.

 

[Klosure]

By the way I have tried following this:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec09/articles/metalII.htm

but the bass on the recording is unreal I can't get mine to sound like that.

And the guitars seems to fit so much better, perhaps you could look at the guide and give me more pointers cos I ant getting it.

 

[Seth Munson]

for bass, try Ola's tut.

 

[-Noodles-]

But whenever I get to guitars its just not gelling the way I had hoped and the guitars feel overpowering or just not in with the mix.

This is an EQ problem.
Either they have too much low end, or far too much mid-range content.

Don't be scared to use panning, hipass filters (all the way up to 400Hz), compression and EQ to get things to sit in balance with each other.

Faders are really to be used to match amplitudes, not frequency content. An ideal mix should have all the faders are zero.

 

[ahjteam]

1. ears
2. ears and years
3. player
4. di + real amp
5. bass guitar gives the low end, not the guitars

An ideal mix should have all the faders are zero.

I disagree.

 

[donimoines]

i'm pretty sure that'd be too hot wouldnt it?
i guess it depends on what monitor level you set it, the lower the better works for me.

 

[Seth Munson]

Don't be scared to use panning, hipass filters (all the way up to 400Hz), compression and EQ to get things to sit in balance with each other.

hipass at 400?

Faders are really to be used to match amplitudes, not frequency content. An ideal mix should have all the faders are zero.

What the fuck are you talking about?
not trying to be rude, but I seriously do not see the logic behind most of the stuff you are saying.

 

[RedDog]

What the fuck are you talking about?
not trying to be rude, but I seriously do not see the logic behind most of the stuff you are saying.

I think he may be adhering to idea of having the preamp doing all the work and trying to obtain unity at or around a desired level, without using the fader.

May have read that article on gain structure too many times over.

EDIT: HP @ 400? Do tell.

 

[Klosure]

wo hi pass 400...


I recently got Mixersmans Zen and the art of mixing, its safe to say 2 things I have so far learnt.

1. Bass is very very difficult to get right.

2. The internet maybe more harmful due to the amount of shit on it that you realise.

 

[Klosure]

for bass, try Ola's tut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mol6awk_aDo

Fucking wicked!


Hi pass up the 400hz must be guitars not bass, but personally thats way to hi I would have thought hmm

 

[-Noodles-]

Yeah - 400Hz hipass I was talking about the guitars. I figured most people knew that bass provides the bass, not the guitars - so hipassing instruments like guitars can really help with a clearer more focussed low end.

This will totally derail the topic but have none of you actually thought about "mixing" in the way that it was originally designed to be? Using equalization (or EQ) and compression will allow instruments to sit alongside each other without sonically trampling each other.
The next logical process is that with all the tracks balanced in spectral content and dynamics - there should be very little movement within faders once this has been achieved.

It's an idea which I've got from a few engineers, even mastering engineers, who agree that mixing can be used as an art - but sometimes that art is letting the music do all the talking.
A lot of people on here seem to disagree but with matched amplitudes and the correct sonic content I don't see why faders would have to move.


Btw - Seth Munson, you are being rude by swearing. Just because you don't "get" something there's not really a requirement for profanity and you're then contradicting yourself in saying "I don't mean to be rude.. but..". I wouldn't mind explaining if you just asked.

 

[AudioGeekZine]

Have you tried worshiping Satan? When in doubt..

 

[KillFrenzy]

Never had to/could hi-pass a guitar over 100Hz, unless I was looking for a old-radio-like type of sound.

 

[Harry Hughes]

Yeah - 400Hz hipass I was talking about the guitars

Are you for real dude?
Are you at all aware of how much meat of the guitars you are killing by doing that?
If you don't have any proper lower mid content in your guitar, it's going to sound like complete shit.
The exception is if you're probably working with some terrible garage indie band who has this vision of how things should sound, where the guitars have no balls, but otherwise, just no, it's going to sound like thin, tinny motherfucking ass.

Never had to/could hi-pass a guitar over 100Hz, unless I was looking for a old-radio-like type of sound.

You can definitely get away with a little more than that (maybe up to like, 150Hz or so), but yeah, as long as you're keeping those lower mids in for some proper testicles to the tone

 

[Klosure]

This is where my biggest problems occur.

Where to high pass.

I agree up to 400hz is a bit much but I understand why one feels they could go that high.


The thought process at first (I know I did it) is that the meaty bit causes the mud and overlap between bass and guitar. AND IT DOES lets face it, but EQ used to remove up to 400hz will remove it but ultimatly it also removes everything else down there inluding the gel and the meat.

So I get that but more often than not listeing to Olas sound is amazing I can't get that with stock logic plugs, why? Its obviously possible.

I have a reasonable 5 string bass (Tanglewood bass sounds nice active EQ). I use the Toontrack superior drummer, I use a good guitar EMG pickups, I mix in logic. I use an Apogee duet (Firestudio for bigger projects), I have a reasonable analog compressor (Summit Audio) I have one of those Golden Audio Neve sounding pre amps- not amazing but good enough.

Yet Ola does it with the basics. I can't bix in that shitty distortion plug in from logic and get he sound to gel like that.. what the fucks going on?

How can I reolve this. The kick drum thumps in every production I hear, I try to acheive the same thing but when I do I don't understand if the thump is volume, compression, EQ I stare into the abyss whilst my ears go round and round. So I turn of processing.

I don't even bother mixing much anymore cos I am convinced its at the recording stage I am fucking up. The punch should be there from stage one correct? Mixing is about bringing that out and making it exciting.

So I ask you now cos there are some very clever chaps on here please help me get a sound I can work from. Where should I start. I want a nice powerful start so I can record and feel like I am going to take this to a better level.

When Ola compresses the bass guitar it works, it does for me as well but I can never get it to gel.


Now I can begin with recording in some tracks and letting you hear them, but its just going to be unprocessed stuff. If it helps I can give you DI's guitars.

Mayble I need to hear some guitar and bass sounds, and understand how to get there.

I can get great live tones, my guitar sounds are chunky!

I'd like to try with IR's but again I have not had much luck yet.

If this wont be any use then please tell me what you think its best I do.


I sound mad.

not quite yet... but soon:zombie:


The tones I love are stuff by Katatonia - but I also love that guitar sound on Sirenia's new album.

 

[Terminus]

Where to high pass.

guitars: roughly 80-120Hz.

The thought process at first (I know I did it) is that the meaty bit causes the mud and overlap between bass and guitar. AND IT DOES lets face it, but EQ used to remove up to 400hz will remove it but ultimatly it also removes everything else down there including the gel and the meat.

Just hp the rhythm guitars at 80-120hz and dont overthink it. Gel and meat is overthinking.

So I get that but more often than not listeing to Olas sound is amazing I can't get that with stock logic plugs, why? Its obviously possible.

Stock plugs for guitar? Naw. You see his videos right? That isn't just plugs. Ola is a good guitar player, and that's is probably the biggest factor in the sound.

I have a reasonable 5 string bass (Tanglewood bass sounds nice active EQ). I use the Toontrack superior drummer, I use a good guitar EMG pickups, I mix in logic. I use an Apogee duet (Firestudio for bigger projects), I have a reasonable analog compressor (Summit Audio) I have one of those Golden Audio Neve sounding pre amps- not amazing but good enough.

Gear doesnt make you good at playing or recording music, my friend.

Yet Ola does it with the basics. I can't bix in that shitty distortion plug in from logic and get he sound to gel like that.. what the fucks going on?

Ola is a good musician. Again, knowledge comes before gear.

How can I reolve this. The kick drum thumps in every production I hear, I try to acheive the same thing but when I do I don't understand if the thump is volume, compression, EQ I stare into the abyss whilst my ears go round and round. So I turn of processing.

Well you have to learn how to process these things. It's all part of learning man. You have to continue to learn if you want to get better. I've been here for 1 1/2 years and let me tell you, it's changed my life and outlook on music. My songs and production have gotten 100 times better than when I first started because I took the time to read the guys' advice, tutorials, watch videos etc.

I don't even bother mixing much anymore cos I am convinced its at the recording stage I am fucking up. The punch should be there from stage one correct? Mixing is about bringing that out and making it exciting.

I get like that from time to time too, everyone does. Just power through it, take every problem one at a time (do my kicks suck? - well let's get on the internet and research about kick drum recording today) and eventually you will see the light. Trust me.

So I ask you now cos there are some very clever chaps on here please help me get a sound I can work from. Where should I start. I want a nice powerful start so I can record and feel like I am going to take this to a better level.

[not clever] see above statement about taking problems one at a time.

When Ola compresses the bass guitar it works, it does for me as well but I can never get it to gel.

Research compression and how it works, what 'threshold' 'attack' 'release' means etc. You know this is the only way you can learn, you have to absorb the information or you will never know how to do it.

Now I can begin with recording in some tracks and letting you hear them, but its just going to be unprocessed stuff. If it helps I can give you DI's guitars.

Doubt you'll get the knowledge you seek this way. Keep trying, research it.

I'd like to try with IR's but again I have not had much luck yet.

Keep the chain as simple as possible, stay away from boosting on post-amp eq. I've been using tse808, Lecto, LeCab and Greg's ASEM impulse and it's really incredible for a free amp sim. Keep ion mind there is no magical setting that makes a sim sound real.

The tones I love are stuff by Katatonia - but I also love that guitar sound on Sirenia's new album.

[Katatonia fan ]

Number ONE THING you need to nail into your brain: GOOD SONGS/PLAYING.

Ola is a badass guitar player. He's got thousands of views on Youtube, can make pretty much any amp sound decent because of playing technique, tightness and generally knowing how to rock a riff.

I literally bored myself to death with my own post. I hope this helps you, though. Totally being sincere here.

 

[Paulie!]

An ideal mix should have all the faders are zero.

Uhm.... no? Good luck not clipping the shit out of you master/group busses with everything a zero there bud...

....Everything he just said....

+1


-P

 

[pipaguapique]

Have you tried worshiping Satan? When in doubt..

wow...never thought of that. How's that working for you man??