Mixing with Plugins on Master Bus?

[Trevoire520]

There's no right and wrong here.

Sometimes I throw a gentle compressor across the master fader and mix into that.
Sometimes I leave my master fader completely raw.
Sometimes I throw a limiter on halfway through my mix to see how it effects my drums (though I don't bounce with this on, it's just to make sure my snare wont disappear in mastering)

But to answer Wolfe's query. Using a mix bus compressor is not mastering as it's not being used for loudness, it's just to give the mix a little bit of glue.

 

[Wolfeman]

I guess it's another one of those things, 'if it works for you then do it'.
Personally, I find it easier to put compression on separate buss' in the mix itself(vocals buss, guitars buss, bass buss, drums buss). Then after all is said and done, apply a master comp/limiter/eq/tape saturation/etc during mastering.

Bottom line is whatever works, works.

 

[Wolfeman]

But to answer Wolfe's query. Using a mix bus compressor is not mastering as it's not being used for loudness, it's just to give the mix a little bit of glue.

Mastering isn't just about loudness, you compress and eq as well.

I suppose everyone looks at the term 'mastering' and 'master bus' in their own way with their own definition, leading to some confusion when we talk to each other about it

 

[Tommy Gun]

I'm not a mix buss comp user myself. I've heard good results with it, but after giving it a try, I prefer to leave the master buss empty and untouched. I use some parallel comp here and there, but the only time my eyes even drift over to the master buss is to see if it's still staying below -6db minimum.

 

[pikachu69]

I'm not a mix buss comp user myself. I've heard good results with it, but after giving it a try, I prefer to leave the master buss empty and untouched. I use some parallel comp here and there, but the only time my eyes even drift over to the master buss is to see if it's still staying below -6db minimum.

You really need to get used to mixing into it, which takes time. You can't just try it once or twice and be able to make a fair assessment of what you can achieve with it. Also, mixing into a comp, and slapping a comp on at the end to 'check' things are not the same at all, not even close in fact and to me that is pseudo mastering. Mixing into a comp is not. Hope this makes sense.

So, in my opinion, if you spend the entire mix process with nothing on the master buss and then apply a few things to check, you are kind of mastering as you are processing a full mix you were already happy with.

When mixing into a master buss chain your mix is built around its behavior and color and this will effect all mix decisions like eq and comp. The mix is usually destroyed when they are removed. This has nothing to do with mastering.

 

[Tommy Gun]

You really need to get used to mixing into it, which takes time. You can't just try it once or twice and be able to make a fair assessment of what you can achieve with it. Also, mixing into a comp, and slapping a comp on at the end to 'check' things are not the same at all, not even close in fact and to me that is pseudo mastering. Mixing into a comp is not. Hope this makes sense.

So, in my opinion, if you spend the entire mix process with nothing on the master buss and then apply a few things to check, you are kind of mastering as you are processing a full mix you were already happy with.

When mixing into a master buss chain your mix is built around its behavior and color and this will effect all mix decisions like eq and comp. The mix is usually destroyed when they are removed. This has nothing to do with mastering.

I assure you, I know the differences between mixing with buss comp and "slapping" comp on later in the mix. The only times I had good/decent results was when I was doing my mix work at the actual recording studio and I tried a few mixes over the course of about a year, mixing through an API 2500 with very subtle settings. Fact is, if I still mixed in the studio, I might be better at it and using more now. But I now do all my editing/mixing at home, and everything is ITB here. I'm still getting used to not "riding" faders here. I'm 32, but I learned from guys who are now getting close to 60 years old. So, by association, I am very old school. I still want to learn editing, cutting with 2-inch.

 

[ShamStalin]

You really need to get used to mixing into it, which takes time. You can't just try it once or twice and be able to make a fair assessment of what you can achieve with it. Also, mixing into a comp, and slapping a comp on at the end to 'check' things are not the same at all, not even close in fact and to me that is pseudo mastering. Mixing into a comp is not. Hope this makes sense.

So, in my opinion, if you spend the entire mix process with nothing on the master buss and then apply a few things to check, you are kind of mastering as you are processing a full mix you were already happy with.

When mixing into a master buss chain your mix is built around its behavior and color and this will effect all mix decisions like eq and comp. The mix is usually destroyed when they are removed. This has nothing to do with mastering.

Mind sharing some clips for comparison/settings, looks fun, heard of this method but never knew it will give such good result, yeah2 now I understand a little bit by doing some research just now, but still need to understand the exact process @_@.

 

[lordtech]

Sham Sham~ FINALLY!!! nice to see another fellow malay here \m/

i would normally bounce the whole song into stereo after mixing, then master to taste.
i only use gclip, Cockos' ReaEQ and stillwell plugins. Sometimes with T-Racks3.

This is a good post for me as reference.. bookmark!!

 

[mburton21]

I just tried out the "mixing with mild SSL on the master bus" and I have to say, I'm enjoying the piss out of this.


Should have done this earlier.

 

[pikachu69]

Mind sharing some clips for comparison/settings, looks fun, heard of this method but never knew it will give such good result, yeah2 now I understand a little bit by doing some research just now, but still need to understand the exact process @_@.

Not off hand as I am mid way through tracking a couple of full length albums, but I will see if I can toward the end of the mix phase.

My normal chain would be:

Saturation (PSP or similar) and/or G Clip. Normally one or the other depending on the source and what I want to achieve.
Comp (SSL or API work well)
EQ (if necessary)
Pultec EQ for fatness.

I don't normally engage this chain until my drum sound is balanced and I only take 1 or 2 db off in each processor with no makeup gain.

 

[006]

I've been told a handful of times by a certain someone to mix with really nothing on the 2bus and just work on getting it to sound how I want that way... saving the 2bus treatment for the "mastering" stage. However, I just can't do that, I am so used to mixing into a comp and limiter, both with mild settings to start with, every time I try to do it without them it never comes out as good. YMMV though.

 

[26]

nothing in the masterbus guy here. for the simple fact that ME's (should) have the better gear.
even if i would have mixed into a comp i would send a clean version of the mix as an option, to the ME (along with the comp settings).

that said: of course i do check with various stuff in the masterbus while mixing.

 

[Tommy Gun]

nothing in the masterbus guy here. for the simple fact that ME's (should) have the better gear.
even if i would have mixed into a comp i would send a clean version of the mix as an option, to the ME (along with the comp settings).

that said: of course i do check with various stuff in the masterbus while mixing.

Well, as others here have already pointed out, it's not a technique that should ever effect the separate mastering process. Mixing with "Mix Buss Comp" has been around a very long time, and it is more that you are mixing through the compressor from the start of the mixing phase, never taking it off the master buss. You still work towards achieving the same "mixdown" or "unmastered" results, such as how you want your mix to sound and how much headroom you will leave for the ME, only you leave a subtle and suitable comp on the master buss the entire time. It's really a dynamics tool/technique above all. Sound On Sound did a great cover article on it a couple of years ago called (I believe) "Giving your mixes more PUNCH!" That particular cover actually had a boxing glove coming out of a nearfield monitor. I still have the issue and just recently loaned it and a few other good ones to a friend who is just starting to dabble.

The point is; It's not a "master referencing" technique or some kind of "pseudo mastering" for those who can't afford a good ME. It's actually just a subtle additive to your mixing process.

 

[26]

i know that and i have nothing against a comp in the masterbus. that is just personal preference.
my point is mainly in my second sentence above. if i mix into an SSL bus comp (plugin), i would still take it off, because the ME could have a real one (or something in similar quality).

 

[Ermz]

Don't think I could mix without an analogue VCA comp and Nebula console saturation on the master bus anymore. Every time I'm doing a quick rough mix without anything there, it just feels completely sterile and lifeless. Master bus processing can be a great way to inject some flavor to an otherwise boring ITB environment.

 

[greyskull]

I use Mcdsp Analog channel on the mix bus, and love the flavour it brings.

 

[RedDog]

I mix into my Ozone. Sometimes I like the brickwall, other times Intelligent II. Most of the time all I have on is the limiter with the threshold down a few dB, maybe Multiband Comp on just the sub frequencies. I tell you, it takes a bit to get used to, but is definitely a step in a good direction if you like to know what a master comp is doing to your drums. All I have to do is watch my peaks, keep them around -10 to about -6 and take Ozone off every now and again if something doesn't fit just right.

I'm not into the mojo way of "Mastering" things just yet, as I've never had to send my mixes off to a separate engineer with his "better gear". And even if I did, he'd probably be doing the same things I would. I just like my mixes clear and loud, quick and dirty. And affordable too.

 

[crillemannen]

Don't think I could mix without an analogue VCA comp and Nebula console saturation on the master bus anymore. Every time I'm doing a quick rough mix without anything there, it just feels completely sterile and lifeless. Master bus processing can be a great way to inject some flavor to an otherwise boring ITB environment.

Yeah, every time his discussion comes up all noobs begin to state that you should leave it to the mastering stage. I would almost dare to say that every PRO uses some sort of compression on their master bus. Nothing rad, just a few db's of GR as people has mention here.

AND if you are quite new to the mixing progress you should perhaps get some of the rest of your shit together before you starts to put thing on you master.
But master bus compression is a great way to add life and flavor just as Ermz stated!!!

 

[ShamStalin]

Sham Sham~ FINALLY!!! nice to see another fellow malay here m/

i would normally bounce the whole song into stereo after mixing, then master to taste.
i only use gclip, Cockos' ReaEQ and stillwell plugins. Sometimes with T-Racks3.

This is a good post for me as reference.. bookmark!!

oittt! muahahaha *gimme5

Hahaha, I really love Gclip, especially on drums, yummy hehe.

 

[Element77]

I love gClip. I should state for the record, that when I said "mixing on the master bus" I meant subtle things, not like putting an Ozone preset on it, then mixing to make it sound good in there. I mean a light compression. I like a pumping mix, and it seems the only way to get everything to move as one unit, is to effect it on the master bus. (I call it that, cause that's what I named it in Sonar.) I try to get all my master level to sit around -6. Then I add a little compression to make it pump, then a dash of EQ, then after that I put gClip on it to boost the volume. This probably isn't the correct way to do it, but it sounds ok to me...