More black metal bands should cover Discharge and Sepultura

Jim LotFP

The Keeper of Metal
Jun 7, 2001
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Helsinki, Finland
www.lotfp.com
And have a Hawkwind fixation.

Just received The Mill Hill Sessions and In the Name of God, Welcome to Planet Genocide today, ordered directly from the band.

The Meads of Asphodel rule. Or rules. Whichever.

Far more information in The Godless, if things go as they should.
 
I've had The Excommunication Of Christ and Exhuming The Grave of Yeshua in my trade pile for the longest time. Can you convince me of why I should give them another chance?
 
Necuratul said:
I've had The Excommunication Of Christ and Exhuming The Grave of Yeshua in my trade pile for the longest time. Can you convince me of why I should give them another chance?
I'm going to run with this one.

I don't know if there is really anything that can be said. If you have both CDs, I assume that you bought them both at the same time due to the reams of well-deserved positive press about both albums.

I did the same things myself back when Exhuming the Grave of Yeshua came out. Although effort and immediacy are all relative, I think it is safe to say that these are both albums that grow in expansiveness and understanding with successive listens and it does take a little time to have everything settle in with the Meads--just my personal experience. Not in a paradigm pushing, sophistacted way, but more of a holistic and comprehensive sense.

Not really a band that is going to reach out and grab you right off the bat if you aren't devoting a lot of attention to what is going on. I guess it could have something to do with the tangents and detours from their base sound that the band goes off on.

I usually recommend or push The Mill Hill Sessions as an entry point, since it is a stripped down "live" in the studio approach. Plus "My Beautiful Genocide" ranks high in the pantheon of epic songs and the cover of "Refuse/Resist" is everything a cover should be.

I don't know...I'd recommend sitting down with Exhuming the Grave of Yeshua and giving it a second, third and fourth chance before throwing in the towel.

It is always dicey to buy multiple albums from a band at once (unavoidable, of course) and if you are doing that with multiple acts things can easily get lost in the welter of things piling up in front of your stereo.

Right now time and finances dicatate that I can *only* buy around four albums a month for the forseeable future, and it is liberating in as way.

I'm actually planning on delving into the collection and giving some things more listens that were shoved aside by other things here in the upcoming months.










That Lieberman avatar has got to go...my eyballs are burning.:)
 
BenMech said:
Funny enough, I spent last week going through the Meads discog, from the first cassette demo to Welcome to Planet Genocide
So I would think it is safe to assume that you enjoyed it?



JayKeeley said:
Sepultura should try covering Sepultura.
HA!!! and BAH!!!

Speaking of trying to convince people of things...this is even more unlikely. :)


Roorback was a great album and Dante XXI is an excellent follow-up (I've even come around and hold Against and Nation in high regard). If you (universal usage not you in particular Jay) have not sat down and given these albums a fair listen, I would suggest giving them a chance. Sepultura has stripped everything down to the primer paint and they are now a sparse, dry blend of dense hardcore which can even be crusty at times and barren thrash. I really think that they are more of a crossover band now in the classic sense of the term with a modern twist that makes them one of the most interesting and intriguing bands out there.

Dante XXI may very well be the best album Sepultura has ever made. Arise does suffer a severe handicap from being played over, over, over and over again in these parts over the years, but Dante combines the best of the past and present directions within a particular band—a feat that few long-in-the-tooth bands can accomplish. Also, Dante turned the old bromide “makes me feel like a teenager again” into a concrete reality. When it came out, I listened to the album again and again with no fatigue setting in for a long time after I got it--just like the days of my youth without any worries of being well-versed about what else I needed to take time to listen to that was piling up due to the all-encompassing enjoyment metal done right can produce.

If you can listen to Dante XII and say that Chaos A.D. or Roots blows it away and make the last two Green-era albums look horrible...I really don't know what you are listening to.

The Dante artwork and packaging is also sharp and some of the best I’ve ever seen. The cartoon illustrations that look like what an art-deco devotee filtering his sensibilities through a Día de Los Muertos palate are just creepy and far more disturbing than some idiots putting a hacked-up woman on an album cover for the 500th fucking time or some sad-panda, make-up clown's cheap, charcoal vision of hell.

It is tragic really, Sepultura has produced an album that should force all the hardliners declaring that the band has been dead since the mid-‘90s to pause and reconsider their words, but they keep on saying the same things. Anyone who dismisses this album without engaging it (this means more than listening a few Mp3s or some streaming audio) should be pelted with rotten vegetables in the town square at high noon and run out of town with a shaved head. Dante is a masterpiece and Derrick Green is one of the most independent spirits inhabiting the realm of metal--it is a shame that many people do not stop to listen more closely.

Also went and saw them in Chicago a few months back and it was just a mind-blowing show and one of the better ones I’ve been to in the past few years. Doors opened at 5:30 to reel in a young crowd, so I had the benefit of getting home early and missing all of the opening bands

Chicago crowds are always a bit wild and there is often a kind of random-people-on-the-street-waiting-for-the-bus-at-a-stop dynamic at work, but it was one of the most diverse crowds I’ve ever seen.

There were a lot of hardcore kids there in hoodies and a smattering of people with shirts off to bare their tattoos.

Some deathheads wearing Suffocation and Cannibal Corpse shirts.


A few old-schoolers roaming about in thrash shirts, denim and leather.

Saw a couple of guys that must have been pushing forty-five/fifty and wearing clothes that were not metal or hardcore by any stretch of the imagination—but one of them was stuffing a Sepultura shirt in his coat pocket as he was heading for the hills at the end of the night.

There was the mother (couple of other possible moms as well) chaperoning her son and some friends who was all gussied up like a glittery and punk rock Pat Benatar in some tight-fitting clothes who looked like she was seeking to bask in a bit of attention from the roving eyes of some younger males for a night.

There actually was a sizable number of women present (compared to most shows, I’ve attended in the past year--it was like returning from a deserted island) Some done up in the goth/suicide girls fashion with cleavage hanging out there in the open, others just clad a black band t-shirt and jeans, and some just in normal all-purpose street clothes.

A lot of Latinos. There was Spanish being spoken all of the place, and I thought I even heard some Portuguese--but can’t be sure.

There was really a good vibe running throughout this wildly divergent crowd making it into one collective entity and the one moment that really summed it up for me was the reaction of some of the shirtless tattooed tough-guys slamming into each other in the pit to one of Green’s asides. When he was talking about the abrupt shift in the weather (was around 60/50 and dropped by about 30 degrees and it started sleeting right as the show let out and then snowing and the snow was still falling 12 hours later), he mentioned that they were walking around outside in shirts just a little bit ago and one of the shirtless guys yelled out “Shirt? Who needs a shirt?” and everyone chuckled a little.

I can’t count how many times I’ve seen one of these guys go meathead and be a dick--but tonight there was a happy smile on everyone’s faces and when they bumped into someone watching and not slamming there was a little irritation at some points but it was quickly cleared up with a hand clasp, a smile and a thumbs up or a fist in the air--the same way which me and another guy told each other everything was cool over the music blaring when we cracked craniums hard as we were both thrashing like mad.

A band that hold a very high and special place in my pantheon that some out there probably would not expect. :)
 
I tried many times to appreciate Excommunication of Christ. It was awful. Granted, these new "avant garde" and "progressive" black metal bands aren't my thing.
 
HA!!! and BAH!!!

Speaking of trying to convince people of things...this is even more unlikely. :)

:erk: Nice dream tho' (I mean all of them reuniting...)

The Dante artwork and packaging is also sharp and some of the best I’ve ever seen. The cartoon illustrations that look like what an art-deco devotee filtering his sensibilities through a Día de Los Muertos palate are just creepy and far more disturbing than some idiots putting a hacked-up woman on an album cover for the 500th fucking time or some sad-panda, make-up clown's cheap, charcoal vision of hell.
"sad-panda - charcoal vision of hell" :devil:
 
I tried many times to appreciate Excommunication of Christ. It was awful. Granted, these new "avant garde" and "progressive" black metal bands aren't my thing.

Hmm. I claimed to be impressed by the album when it came out, and never got rid of the album. Never quite managed to follow up with Meads until now though, so maybe I wasn't as impressed as advertised.

The new stuff is much much better, although I don't know what good that does you considering your taste and my taste. :D

But yeah, this Mill Hill thing, best of the three things I've heard from them by far.
 
So I would think it is safe to assume that you enjoyed it?




HA!!! and BAH!!!

Speaking of trying to convince people of things...this is even more unlikely. :)


Roorback was a great album and Dante XXI is an excellent follow-up (I've even come around and hold Against and Nation in high regard). If you (universal usage not you in particular Jay) have not sat down and given these albums a fair listen, I would suggest giving them a chance. Sepultura has stripped everything down to the primer paint and they are now a sparse, dry blend of dense hardcore which can even be crusty at times and barren thrash. I really think that they are more of a crossover band now in the classic sense of the term with a modern twist that makes them one of the most interesting and intriguing bands out there.

Dante XXI may very well be the best album Sepultura has ever made. Arise does suffer a severe handicap from being played over, over, over and over again in these parts over the years, but Dante combines the best of the past and present directions within a particular band—a feat that few long-in-the-tooth bands can accomplish. Also, Dante turned the old bromide “makes me feel like a teenager again” into a concrete reality. When it came out, I listened to the album again and again with no fatigue setting in for a long time after I got it--just like the days of my youth without any worries of being well-versed about what else I needed to take time to listen to that was piling up due to the all-encompassing enjoyment metal done right can produce.

If you can listen to Dante XII and say that Chaos A.D. or Roots blows it away and make the last two Green-era albums look horrible...I really don't know what you are listening to.

The Dante artwork and packaging is also sharp and some of the best I’ve ever seen. The cartoon illustrations that look like what an art-deco devotee filtering his sensibilities through a Día de Los Muertos palate are just creepy and far more disturbing than some idiots putting a hacked-up woman on an album cover for the 500th fucking time or some sad-panda, make-up clown's cheap, charcoal vision of hell.

It is tragic really, Sepultura has produced an album that should force all the hardliners declaring that the band has been dead since the mid-‘90s to pause and reconsider their words, but they keep on saying the same things. Anyone who dismisses this album without engaging it (this means more than listening a few Mp3s or some streaming audio) should be pelted with rotten vegetables in the town square at high noon and run out of town with a shaved head. Dante is a masterpiece and Derrick Green is one of the most independent spirits inhabiting the realm of metal--it is a shame that many people do not stop to listen more closely.

Also went and saw them in Chicago a few months back and it was just a mind-blowing show and one of the better ones I’ve been to in the past few years. Doors opened at 5:30 to reel in a young crowd, so I had the benefit of getting home early and missing all of the opening bands

Chicago crowds are always a bit wild and there is often a kind of random-people-on-the-street-waiting-for-the-bus-at-a-stop dynamic at work, but it was one of the most diverse crowds I’ve ever seen.

There were a lot of hardcore kids there in hoodies and a smattering of people with shirts off to bare their tattoos.

Some deathheads wearing Suffocation and Cannibal Corpse shirts.


A few old-schoolers roaming about in thrash shirts, denim and leather.

Saw a couple of guys that must have been pushing forty-five/fifty and wearing clothes that were not metal or hardcore by any stretch of the imagination—but one of them was stuffing a Sepultura shirt in his coat pocket as he was heading for the hills at the end of the night.

There was the mother (couple of other possible moms as well) chaperoning her son and some friends who was all gussied up like a glittery and punk rock Pat Benatar in some tight-fitting clothes who looked like she was seeking to bask in a bit of attention from the roving eyes of some younger males for a night.

There actually was a sizable number of women present (compared to most shows, I’ve attended in the past year--it was like returning from a deserted island) Some done up in the goth/suicide girls fashion with cleavage hanging out there in the open, others just clad a black band t-shirt and jeans, and some just in normal all-purpose street clothes.

A lot of Latinos. There was Spanish being spoken all of the place, and I thought I even heard some Portuguese--but can’t be sure.

There was really a good vibe running throughout this wildly divergent crowd making it into one collective entity and the one moment that really summed it up for me was the reaction of some of the shirtless tattooed tough-guys slamming into each other in the pit to one of Green’s asides. When he was talking about the abrupt shift in the weather (was around 60/50 and dropped by about 30 degrees and it started sleeting right as the show let out and then snowing and the snow was still falling 12 hours later), he mentioned that they were walking around outside in shirts just a little bit ago and one of the shirtless guys yelled out “Shirt? Who needs a shirt?” and everyone chuckled a little.

I can’t count how many times I’ve seen one of these guys go meathead and be a dick--but tonight there was a happy smile on everyone’s faces and when they bumped into someone watching and not slamming there was a little irritation at some points but it was quickly cleared up with a hand clasp, a smile and a thumbs up or a fist in the air--the same way which me and another guy told each other everything was cool over the music blaring when we cracked craniums hard as we were both thrashing like mad.

A band that hold a very high and special place in my pantheon that some out there probably would not expect. :)

Dude, Sepultura lost me at Chaos AD.
 
I was too young to realize them when they got hyped during what is considered their classic period. I find their begginings crap and their thrash a good Slayer rip-off. What came afterwards till Cavalera left does not do anything for me, but some of that Greene material is interesting. The Dante concept album in particular is good and intense as well for its shortness.
 
Oh come on....Morbid Visions is 1st wave all the way, Schizophrenia would be one of the greatest thrash albums if it weren't for the crappy production, but they nailed it well and truly at Beneath the Remains. Hardly a Slayer rip off especially where thrash in general is so one-dimensional (unless everyone inherently becomes a Slayer rip off including the likes of Dark Angel), it's fucking unbelievable to hear the catacomb-like production and Brazillian tribal influence, all thanks to Scotty Burns. Arise is also very excellent but a little inconsistent. That said, songs like "Dead Embryonic" and "Desperate Cry" could be their best work ever so the album holds strong.

I cannot even stomach Chaos AD, although Roots isn't quite as vomit-inducing. Sepultura used to be one of my fave bands, considering they bridged thrash to death for me, and so like an overly forgiving die harder, I even stuck with them through the times of Against and Nation....at that point though, the horse was well and truly flogged.

I saw them supporting Roorback (I think), it was the tour where Voivod supported. Good show but just a complete shadow of their past....I'm not sure how standing shoulder to shoulder with hardcore fans is supposed to be a good thing...you know, considering 98.3% of them are complete pricks. And Sepultura doing their "Beneath/Arise" medleys (because you know they can't play that stuff anymore from start to finish) is pretty piss poor.

Andreas Kisser could quite possibly be the biggest waste of talent on this planet. I'm not even sure why Sepultura need two guitarists anymore.
 
Occam's Razor said:
The Dante concept album in particular is good and intense as well for its shortness.
You are a man of good taste and refinement. :)


JayKeeley said:
I cannot even stomach Chaos AD, although Roots isn't quite as vomit-inducing.
That is a pretty wild and weird opinion from what I've seen.

I will admit to being absolutely enamored of Chaos when it came out but Roots is just putrid.

Chaos is one of those albums that hasn't aged well, though. There are still some songs on there I enjoy, but a significant amount of them just sound stale and staid to me now.

As long as we are on the subject, I'm finally getting around to ordering the new Ratos de Porao tonight.

I'm reeeeaaaaallly looking forward to that one showing up in the mail.

Talk about a band that has slipped through the cracks.
 
I cannot even stomach Chaos AD, although Roots isn't quite as vomit-inducing.

Beeeeeeeeeezzzzaaarrreeeeeee.

Chaos AD is hardly a great album front-to-back, but some songs (Refuse/Resist and Biotech is Godzilla) are great... but Roots was the most godawful piece of shit and why I was never shaken by Max leaving... I hated the next Sepultura album after that (still a million times better than Soulfly...) but because Roots was done with "the real lineup" I considered them done either way.

It'll be funny as hell, and completely unsurprising, if Max rejoins Sepultura and they're playing Roots and Soulfly songs and still just playing medleys from all those "early" albums like Arise and Beneath the Remains. :)
 
Beeeeeeeeeezzzzaaarrreeeeeee.

Chaos AD is hardly a great album front-to-back, but some songs (Refuse/Resist and Biotech is Godzilla) are great... but Roots was the most godawful piece of shit and why I was never shaken by Max leaving... I hated the next Sepultura album after that (still a million times better than Soulfly...) but because Roots was done with "the real lineup" I considered them done either way.

It'll be funny as hell, and completely unsurprising, if Max rejoins Sepultura and they're playing Roots and Soulfly songs and still just playing medleys from all those "early" albums like Arise and Beneath the Remains. :)

Yeah, it's not like I'm saying Chaos AD 'bad', Roots ' good'. They're both turds to my ears, just one isn't as bile-covered as the other. And really, the only crappy logic I have is that the song, "Roots Bloody Roots", is quite entertaining live and mostly better than anything on Chaos AD. I guess it's the Brazillian tribal flare that wins me over, including Igor's little cowbell tippy taps haha, as opposed to the JUMP DA FUCK UP MUTHAFUCKA riffs splattered throughout Chaos AD.

Who knows, but when I think of Sepultura, I think of everything up to Arise and then abruptly stop thinking altogether. :loco:

Andreas Kisser seriously needs to find another band and get back to playing heavy metal. And I don't mean those crappy Jason Newsted side projects either.