Muddy mixes and 3D vocals

[AntonioPetrole]

I have a question that has been bothering me

The first one is about vocal chains. I have such a hard time achieving 3D in your face sounding vocals. I always compress my vocals to shit, really fast attack and release, set a delay according to the tempo and add a bit of reverb. The delay and reverb are set as a send. Eq wise i usually HP 200hz and boost in the 3khz range a little bit. No matter how hard i try i can never manage to get it punchy and in your face. Its always too quiet or too loud. Here are examples

these are some scratch vocals i did today (i must have knocked it out of time in a few parts by accident )

Vocals no effects
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2113488/without effects.mp3
Vocals with effects
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2113488/with effects.mp3
In a mix (unfinished)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2113488/Mix Day 7.mp3

Im thinking maybe its because my mix is muddy? Thanks for any responses

BTW When i compress my vocals, i usually do about 8-12 db with reacomp, and then smash it with a limiter. I can never get a real consistent volume with just a compressor. Also the mic i use is a shure beta 58A with the metal cap off and then a pop filter about 4 inches in front of it

 

[crillemannen]

Ddin't listen to your samples bu you can use a dubbler as a send. Blend it to get a wider more "3d" sound

 

[Ermz]

Yes it's absolutely because the mix is muddy. 90% of the perceived vocal sound is how the mix sits around it (IMO anyway). You've got too many mids going on in those guitars which are clouding the ambiance of the mix, and stopping anything from sounding 3d. The reason you will always have 'too much' or 'too little' with a mix like this is because those mids will eat up the 'just right' amount.

EQ is your best friend here.

I just came off setting up a mix today, and I've got a drum/bass export which may help you. Now bear in mind this is unfinished, and while mixing it I was really unhappy with the lack of clarity in the low-end. Maybe use this as a reference point to know how far to go, and how much further it has to go: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/285689/Cecile-4.mp3

 

[wibi08]

Yes it's absolutely because the mix is muddy. 90% of the perceived vocal sound is how the mix sits around it (IMO anyway). You've got too many mids going on in those guitars which are clouding the ambiance of the mix, and stopping anything from sounding 3d. The reason you will always have 'too much' or 'too little' with a mix like this is because those mids will eat up the 'just right' amount.

EQ is your best friend here.

I just came off setting up a mix today, and I've got a drum/bass export which may help you. Now bear in mind this is unfinished, and while mixing it I was really unhappy with the lack of clarity in the low-end. Maybe use this as a reference point to know how far to go, and how much further it has to go: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/285689/Cecile-4.mp3

thx roflsaurusrex and Ermz!

 

[B36arin]

Thanks a lot for that Ermz, your mixes are always awesome and it's really helpful to get an insight into how you mix

 

[chrisrivalry]

all hail ERMZ!!!

 

[AntonioPetrole]

Thanks ermz, much appreciated as always. I will use that as a reference and post back tonight. Cheers!

 

[AntonioPetrole]

I redid the vocals and mixed more. I like the level where they are at right now, but there just no up front enough.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2113488/Mix Day 8.mp3

 

[Megin]

You have too much clashes in your mix. If the other instruments sounds good in the mix, there's usually not much you need to do with the vocals to make sit well in the mix.The less EQ you need on vocals, the better. Too much and it sounds unnatural. If you want a upfront sound, cut down on delay and reverb. Both of them, especially the latter, since they will push the sound into the background. Use subtle reverb only. If you use a convolution reverb, you can e.g. use a studioimpulse or a ambience. Draw the reverb send level in your vocal audio channel to zero and up again till you can hear the reverb. That is usually enough of reverb. And dont forget to EQ the reverb too to make it more clearer. That goes for other instruments in the mix too you use reverb on.