My Pearl Reference drums recorded, natural sound...

[Sly]

Just wanted to share that, if that can interest you :

I just took some time yesterday with a friend to record my new Pearl Reference drumset.
Here it is :
http://sylvain.raulin.free.fr/Gregbatt/battbounce.wav

I used only two of my three toms : 10' and 14', and the 22' bass drum.
The snare is my SJC custom hammered snare.
I used various Sabian, Zildjian, Istanbul... cymbals, as you can see on the pics below.
Tom heads are clean Emperors, snare head is a Genera G1, and kick drum head is a Powerstroke 3 coated, which came with the set (would have liked to switch before the recording for an EMAD or Aquarian SK1 but didn't have the money).

We used an RME Fireface 800 with Nuendo to record, and good mic pres (Great River, API, A-Designs, Purple Audio etc.)

The recording chain was :

KICK DRUM
Audix D6 inside (API 512 pre)
D112 outside (RME pre)

SNARE
two SM57 (top into an A-Designs RED pre and bottom in an RME pre)

TOMS
Beyer Opus 87 mics into Mindprint DTC

ROOM MIC (mono)
Royer R121 into Purple Audio Biz and UA 1176 compressor (smashed!)

OVERHEADS
Oktava MK012 into the Great River (Neve-like) pres

The result is absolutely raw, just put a high pass on the OH mics.

Some pics :

Some comments about that recording :

Do not care about the kind of sloppy playing, yesterday wasn't a good day, dunno why

This is my first recording with the Audix D6, and this mic is simply incredible for metal stuff, love it ! Here is a raw extract of the Audix alone :
http://sylvain.raulin.free.fr/Gregbatt/AudixD6.wav
Instead of the D112, we began putting the Royer mic in front of the bass drum to get some low mids out of it, but we had to use it as the room mic then, so we put the D112 in the end, but I don't think it's the perfect mic to go with the D6 (would love to try a RE-20 here, or a Subkick).

The Great River pres are really amazing, the Oktavas sounded A LOT better with those. Usually, I find them to be a bit harsh with a muddy low end, but the GR pres made them to sound creamy and smooth. In this mixdown I just highpassed them @ 200 Hz.

We ended using a Royer ribbon mic as a mono room mic. We tried some LDC and even they were kind of realistic, the cymbals sounded really harsh through them and I didn't like the way they were handling compression. The Royer has incredible dynamics, and that vintage sound you like for a natural drum sound.

I was surprised by those Opus 87 that are really cheap . They definitely work great on toms ! (and the Mindprint DTC has great pres for that application).

 

[MetalJonesy]

thats a really nice sound you got going on there, the toms sounds pretty decent too, whats the spill like on the opus 87s? As far as kick mics, i the audix is great and i really dislike the d112, ive never really been able to get good results ith it.

 

[Sly]

Yeah I've really never got a great sound out of the D112. I need something that can bring out the low mid thump in a nice way. A RE-20 should work well for this, or an U47 !! ahah

 

[Seizure.]

That some gear you have there, damn! congrats!

 

[Sly]

Thanks guys.
In fact we are two guys trying to build up their own studio in Switzerland, and we have really great gear we could buy during the last years. We have been working together since 2 years in a former antinuclear basement, but now we have a new place, which is far better. Here is our myspace :
www.myspace.com/recstudio77

For the moment I live in France, 2 hours drive from Switzerland, but I plan to move there quite soon because the studio is located there, and my friend lives there too. Each time we have a studio session (which happens rarely these times because we finish to install all the gear in the new place), I go to Switzerland with all my gear (which is approximately a third of all the gear we both have), it's a bit complicated... But I love that !
During the time we don't have sessions in the studio, I can do some recording tests and demos in my hometown with friends. This session is one of them (I brought my gear, mic pres, mics, compressors, drums, etc. but we used his computer, some of his mics, his RME soundcard, and his room of course).

 

[J.DavisNJ]

Sounds really great man. Cool story and gear too. Is that room treated acoustically at all yet? If not, great job on those recordings. They sound fantastic with barely any processing.

-Joe

 

[Sly]

Thanks Joe,

hope that studio will work someday. Let me say I learn a lot in here, especially when it comes to metal, there's no "hype" and people really try everything to get the best of their gear, and I heard some amazing sounding tracks on this forum with not that much gear but great experience and ears.
The room in which we recorded those drums have no specific treatment, just some egg boxes lol. IMO the fact that it's quite large with gear lying around here and there plays a great role in the final sound we got. We also used very good gear and had some time to try things, and even if it's not "perfect" in the end, it sounds cool.
The room we currently build in the studio will have a specific acoustic treatment once achieved.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

Sly,

Very cool man. The gear definitely plays a part in the sound for sure, but you guys seem to have a good amount of skill with mic placement.

Are you trying to make this your full time job? Or do you go to Uni/work at another job?

-Joe

 

[Soundlurker]

Is sounds pretty nice but also dark. How are the Oktavas placed? Are they in X/Y and are the tracks panned? Because the OHs don't sound very wide.

 

[Sly]

For the moment I have another full time job, kind of boring but I earn a bit of money to buy gear and things, but the aim is to make a living of engineering and create good music once day for sure
We are two guys working in the studio, it really helps to have two pair of ears, and over all it's great when you are in phase with the other guy working with you, which is the case.
Mic placement has a huge role in the sound, and especially for drums where you wanna use a lots of mics. Some frequencies are difficult to obtain/get rid of, and gear definitely helps, and you have to be really careful with the phase. Having the possibility of choosing between two mics sometimes changes everything.
I find that room mics are the key to my "real" drum sounds. They bring depth, definition, power and space to the drums in the mix. And I tried million things before realizing that. The right place (what do you want in your room sound), the right mic (some may be too bright, and you need dynamics here), and the right processing (compression or transient design...).
I recently mixed an home studio demo for a band, drums were DFHS, and once again room mics saved my life (listen and download it here : www.perimetron.com).

 

[Sly]

You're right, and I think the "mono" effect comes from the unique room mic. Having a pair of them is clearly better for drum separation, but I kind of like the way it sounds with only one mic too.
I'm always trying to have the snare right in phase in the OH (measuring the distance between snare and the two mics) because a lot of the snare pop comes from there. Then I'd play with the mic angle to adjust if there is too much snare in the OH or not enough, and that may have a certain effect on the drum stereo field too.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

For the moment I have another full time job, kind of boring but I earn a bit of money to buy gear and things, but the aim is to make a living of engineering and create good music once day for sure
We are two guys working in the studio, it really helps to have two pair of ears, and over all it's great when you are in phase with the other guy working with you, which is the case.
Mic placement has a huge role in the sound, and especially for drums where you wanna use a lots of mics. Some frequencies are difficult to obtain/get rid of, and gear definitely helps, and you have to be really careful with the phase. Having the possibility of choosing between two mics sometimes changes everything.
I find that room mics are the key to my "real" drum sounds. They bring depth, definition, power and space to the drums in the mix. And I tried million things before realizing that. The right place (what do you want in your room sound), the right mic (some may be too bright, and you need dynamics here), and the right processing (compression or transient design...).
I recently mixed an home studio demo for a band, drums were DFHS, and once again room mics saved my life (listen and download it here : www.perimetron.com).

Nice, I will check it out right now. Good luck to you.

Where do you generally place room mics when recording a kit?

And do you ever have to flip the phase of one mic to eliminate phasing problems?

-Joe

 

[Sly]

Often I'd put it a few meters (2,3,4 meters or more depending on how the room sounds) from the kit, facing a point between the kick drum and the snare drum. I'd play with the angle to get rid of the cymbals as much as possible without having too much of the snare timbre. The Royer is amazing here because it has great dynamics, and have a vintage thing going on which makes your cymbals to sound a lot less harsh than with an LDC + it handles EQ and compression very well, creating the "glue".
I usually flip the bottom snare mic's phase, and maybe one of the kick mic if you use several ones. You have to constantly use your "phase inverting" button on each track in your DAW and see what's happening. You often have to find a kind of "compromise" (for instance, you'd get a killer roomy snare tone BUT you loose a bit of low mids in the kick) because perfect phase doesn't exist I guess.
A great thing to do when micing a kick drum is to begin with only one mic, and then to ask yourself "what is missing in the tone ?". Then you have to find a mic that would bring the missing frequencies you need in the drum tone you have in mind.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

Often I'd put it a few meters (2,3,4 meters or more depending on how the room sounds) from the kit, facing a point between the kick drum and the snare drum. I'd play with the angle to get rid of the cymbals as much as possible without having too much of the snare timbre. The Royer is amazing here because it has great dynamics, and have a vintage thing going on which makes your cymbals to sound a lot less harsh than with an LDC + it handles EQ and compression very well, creating the "glue".
I usually flip the bottom snare mic's phase, and maybe one of the kick mic if you use several ones. You have to constantly use your "phase inverting" button on each track in your DAW and see what's happening. You often have to find a kind of "compromise" (for instance, you'd get a killer roomy snare tone BUT you loose a bit of low mids in the kick) because perfect phase doesn't exist I guess.
A great thing to do when micing a kick drum is to begin with only one mic, and then to ask yourself "what is missing in the tone ?". Then you have to find a mic that would bring the missing frequencies you need in the drum tone you have in mind.

Ah, I see what you are saying. I wish I had the capabilities to mic drums right now! I'm mainly doing guitars and programming the drums.

So basically another Royer would help your room imaging some?? I think it sounds great as it is. I bet you could get some great stoner rock recordings in there.

Have you tried that Purple Audio Biz on guitars? I'm thinking of picking up a couple for those reasons. Basically I need some great pres for guitars and vocals right now.

-Joe

 

[Sly]

Yeah I hope I will be able to afford one another soon !

The Purple Biz is really incredible. One of the best guitar pre IMO. I used to have a pair of them, but traded one for an A-Designs RED pre, which also sounds very good. You have tons of gain with the Purple, making them very efficient on ribbons.
The DUAL mode is interesting : press it and you get more gain, and a boost around 1 khz, I usually don't use it but sometimes it works.
The color is great, big sounding pre, huge tight lows, clear highs, thick mids! You'll never be disappointed. If you want to hear more of it, I can record a 5150 with a 57, Mesa cab, and the Purple, tracked four times.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

Yeah I hope I will be able to afford one another soon !

The Purple Biz is really incredible. One of the best guitar pre IMO. I used to have a pair of them, but traded one for an A-Designs RED pre, which also sounds very good. You have tons of gain with the Purple, making them very efficient on ribbons.
The DUAL mode is interesting : press it and you get more gain, and a boost around 1 khz, I usually don't use it but sometimes it works.
The color is great, big sounding pre, huge tight lows, clear highs, thick mids! You'll never be disappointed. If you want to hear more of it, I can record a 5150 with a 57, Mesa cab, and the Purple, tracked four times.

Awesome! Seems like a good choice. Sly, that would be amazing. Can you also make a track witht he 57 and the Royer?? I'd like to see how they blend together.

Thanks so much!! Very much appreciated.

-Joe

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

Sounds great! The only thing I don't dig to much is the overheads. Would like them brighter and wider, but you have a good thing going! Nice gear.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

Also, maybe just a double track would work for now...I'd like to hear the amp naturally the best I can. Sorry for so many requests, you just seem to have the gear I want. hehehe

 

[Soundlurker]

You're right, and I think the "mono" effect comes from the unique room mic. Having a pair of them is clearly better for drum separation, but I kind of like the way it sounds with only one mic too.
I'm always trying to have the snare right in phase in the OH (measuring the distance between snare and the two mics) because a lot of the snare pop comes from there. Then I'd play with the mic angle to adjust if there is too much snare in the OH or not enough, and that may have a certain effect on the drum stereo field too.

I didn't understand whether you used an X/Y positioning or spaced pair. Could you repeat this test but with a spaced pair for the OHs? That should both make them brighter and wider.

 

[Sly]

I should be able to fill your requests on monday, we are doing a guitar session, and we have both my friend's Mesa Dual Recto and my 5150 (with new tubes).
I'll record two tracks of 57, and two tracks of Royer
It seems that for the moment I couldn't find a really satisfying position for the Royer in front of a guitar cab : to stick it real close and straight to the cone gives an amazing crunchy sound, especially in the high mids and highs, but in the low mids, it's a bit muddy and when I put it in the mix it darkens the whole guitar sound in a bad way. This time I'm going to try to have the mic very close, but at the same place I'd usually put a 57. We'll have some time and time is the key to get a great sound !

As for the drums, I'm afraid I won't be able to do some new tests until the next drum session. I think we could have got a wider stereo, moving the mics and making them farther from the snare. For this recording, the two Oktavas were approximately 1 meter each from the snare, and maybe 40 cm from the cymbals. Not very wide, but we got a good phase alignement of the snare into them, and huge "pop". I will try to get a wider OH field next time for sure, but as I said, a mono room mic doesn't help here.
I will post all the invididual tracks so you can hear what we got in each mic.

Monday is guitars, and then bass (A-Designs REDDI, Great River, Ampeg, Sansamp BDDI, MXR Bass DI ... for an agressive distorded sound !) later in the next week.