N00b at mastering

austinhue

austinhue

Member
Feb 28, 2011
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I'll tell you straight up, I always sort of ignore doing well on this step of production and just kind of make it loud. It's insanely important though, so I would love to hear from you guys about what you do differently from me.

Here's a song I produced and mixed without any mastering (I normally mix into mastering, but I did it differently this time so you can really hear the mastering) [EDIT: This is the most recent version, I took down the original link]:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6920288/Captain_unmastered.mp3


Here's the same song after mastering. I didn't change any of the mixing:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6920288/New Captain.mp3


I'm just using the Loudness Maximizer and Multiband Compressor in Ozone, then a limiter. RMS level is between -10 and -8dB.
 
austinhue said:
I'll tell you straight up, I always sort of ignore doing well on this step of production and just kind of make it loud. It's insanely important though, so I would love to hear from you guys about what you do differently from me.

Here's a song I produced and mixed without any mastering (I normally mix into mastering, but I did it differently this time so you can really hear the mastering):

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6920288/Captain_unmastered.mp3


Here's the same song after mastering. I didn't change any of the mixing:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6920288/Captain_mastered.mp3


I'm just using the Loudness Maximizer and Multiband Compressor in Ozone, then a limiter. RMS level is between -10 and -8dB.
Click to expand...

The clean vocals sounded really loud to me and I feel the OH's could come up... I reallt didnt like the sound of your snare whatd the eq look like on it and the toms sounded fake to me as well...

just my two cents... really liked the efx on the track though...

what limiter are you using in the master?
 
the drums sound lifeless. i would work with the tone of the drums a bit more, add more life and character to them. dosent seem like the guitars are leveled correctly, sounds like it gets louder in some spots then back lower, if you are using an automation to do this i would back off of it a bit to where it isnt as drastic of a dynamic change. i would do the same with vocals aswell. other than that i think you are headed in the right direction
 
jpsmithrocks said:
The clean vocals sounded really loud to me and I feel the OH's could come up... I reallt didnt like the sound of your snare whatd the eq look like on it and the toms sounded fake to me as well...

just my two cents... really liked the efx on the track though...

what limiter are you using in the master?
Click to expand...

Do you think the clean vox sounded balanced with the mastering off? Because this is mostly about the mastering, know what I mean?
The snare just has a little bump at 200... it's two samples, Slate snare 11 mixed with my own. The toms are my own too. They sound huge and full by themselves but I've been having some difficulty getting them to sound big with the mastering.
The limiter is just Logic's default Adaptive Limiter. Do you think it sounds overcompressed/squashed/clippy? Or too quiet?
 
Bryantnick said:
the drums sound lifeless. i would work with the tone of the drums a bit more, add more life and character to them. dosent seem like the guitars are leveled correctly, sounds like it gets louder in some spots then back lower, if you are using an automation to do this i would back off of it a bit to where it isnt as drastic of a dynamic change. i would do the same with vocals aswell. other than that i think you are headed in the right direction
Click to expand...

Alright. I will check out what more I can do with the drums. Could you give me some more specific examples of where the guitars and vocals get louder and quieter? There's no volume automation on anything in the whole song - and in fact there's a ridiculous amount of compression on the vox (30:1 on every track, mixed with a bus adding another 8:1 compressor).

Does the master sound overcompressed/squashed/clippy to you?
 
austinhue said:
Do you think the clean vox sounded balanced with the mastering off? Because this is mostly about the mastering, know what I mean?
The snare just has a little bump at 200... it's two samples, Slate snare 11 mixed with my own. The toms are my own too. They sound huge and full by themselves but I've been having some difficulty getting them to sound big with the mastering.
The limiter is just Logic's default Adaptive Limiter. Do you think it sounds overcompressed/squashed/clippy? Or too quiet?
Click to expand...

I'm not a pro at this stuff yet so I really dont know if I should even be giving my input on this but I know when I mix my snare i usually bump the 100 and/or 200 on the bottom and top mic's... I also have two audio-engineers whom have an incredible ability to get what im describing as the sound in my head on the mix... and they tend to do alot of stuff for me so I may do that and they may undo it... and their own thing... mixing drums is an art that I'm just beginning to comprehend...

I would like to know how you mixed this... what im finding very help is the post by AHJTeam on one way to mix...

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/8065710-post6.html

I think this is a very good approach because once you have the drums locked in and sounding the way you want them to you notice what adding and subtracting instruments does to the overall mix...

I would encourage to read up... hell even do a google search unless some one here has a better suggestion bringing recorded to life... what does your bus look like for your drum kit (piece by piece)

another thing is that Logic's factory compressor sucks to me as do most of the factory things in logic... I hate the eq's as well... I'm assuming the limiter sucks as well... (IMO) so that could also be contributing to your problem...

I noticed that you started the drum editing thread... which didnt seem like it answered all of your questions so i would try search for the answer bro...

with that said I think the drums sound fake... over compressed and the snare sounds clippy... the leads sound to high in the mix... the rhythm guitars sound a little muddy to me... thats all i got for now...
 
jpsmithrocks said:
I'm not a pro at this stuff yet so I really dont know if I should even be giving my input on this but I know when I mix my snare i usually bump the 100 and/or 200 on the bottom and top mic's... I also have two audio-engineers whom have an incredible ability to get what im describing as the sound in my head on the mix... and they tend to do alot of stuff for me so I may do that and they may undo it... and their own thing... mixing drums is an art that I'm just beginning to comprehend...

I would like to know how you mixed this... what im finding very help is the post by AHJTeam on one way to mix...

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/8065710-post6.html

I think this is a very good approach because once you have the drums locked in and sounding the way you want them to you notice what adding and subtracting instruments does to the overall mix...

I would encourage to read up... hell even do a google search unless some one here has a better suggestion bringing recorded to life... what does your bus look like for your drum kit (piece by piece)

another thing is that Logic's factory compressor sucks to me as do most of the factory things in logic... I hate the eq's as well... I'm assuming the limiter sucks as well... (IMO) so that could also be contributing to your problem...

I noticed that you started the drum editing thread... which didnt seem like it answered all of your questions so i would try search for the answer bro...

with that said I think the drums sound fake... over compressed and the snare sounds clippy... the leads sound to high in the mix... the rhythm guitars sound a little muddy to me... thats all i got for now...
Click to expand...

Alright, thanks! That looks like a really great way to mix, I'll have to try it out when I get a chance. And yeah, I'm a total beginner at all of this - I've been producing for about a year and only seriously producing for the last few months. I still have a long way to go until I develop an "ear" for any of this stuff, I'm just going off other people's advice right now and trying to get an understanding of what works and what doesn't.

I mixed this song in a sort of similar way to the ahj method, I bypassed the mastering crap except a spectrum analyzer, knocked everything down to -inf, then mixed tracks up individually. The difference is I just did it in the same order I record things - drums, then guitars, bass, vox, keys, extras.

As far as my drum bussing, this is probably way whack, I just learned about compressing drum busses like a week ago, and I still don't think I understand it. I have a bus with a crazy reverb, which I'm sending the snare and toms to. Then I have another bus with a compressor - 6:1 ratio, 6dB total GR. I'm sending everything here. There's also a compressor on the snares and a limiter on the OHs. I'd be interested to see where I can take this start and add more life to my drums. The samples, like I think I mentioned, are all samples I made myself with my drummer's kit. We made them about 2 weeks ago, and it's the "first draft", so there might be some stuff about the samples themselves that I could do differently. For example, the snare doesn't cut very well so I had to turn it up more than I'm comfortable with.

The drum editing thread was mostly about quantizing and replacing methods, and I got some pretty good info in that regard - but I've been searching around like a madman for info on drum processing lately. It's something I could certainly stand to be better at =]

Anyway, tell me what you think of this new mix. I started everything over from scratch.
Sorry about the long post.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6920288/New Captain.mp3
 
austinhue said:
Alright, thanks! That looks like a really great way to mix, I'll have to try it out when I get a chance. And yeah, I'm a total beginner at all of this - I've been producing for about a year and only seriously producing for the last few months. I still have a long way to go until I develop an "ear" for any of this stuff, I'm just going off other people's advice right now and trying to get an understanding of what works and what doesn't.

I mixed this song in a sort of similar way to the ahj method, I bypassed the mastering crap except a spectrum analyzer, knocked everything down to -inf, then mixed tracks up individually. The difference is I just did it in the same order I record things - drums, then guitars, bass, vox, keys, extras.

As far as my drum bussing, this is probably way whack, I just learned about compressing drum busses like a week ago, and I still don't think I understand it. I have a bus with a crazy reverb, which I'm sending the snare and toms to. Then I have another bus with a compressor - 6:1 ratio, 6dB total GR. I'm sending everything here. There's also a compressor on the snares and a limiter on the OHs. I'd be interested to see where I can take this start and add more life to my drums. The samples, like I think I mentioned, are all samples I made myself with my drummer's kit. We made them about 2 weeks ago, and it's the "first draft", so there might be some stuff about the samples themselves that I could do differently. For example, the snare doesn't cut very well so I had to turn it up more than I'm comfortable with.

The drum editing thread was mostly about quantizing and replacing methods, and I got some pretty good info in that regard - but I've been searching around like a madman for info on drum processing lately. It's something I could certainly stand to be better at =]

Anyway, tell me what you think of this new mix. I started everything over from scratch.
Sorry about the long post.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6920288/New Captain.mp3
Click to expand...

This mix sounds a lot better... I'll take another crack it through monitors this tomorrow but again this one sounds a lot better great job... I'll call one of my guys in the morning and see if he'll tell me what he does... He's make the sicks drum mixes ever... he's snare is epic...

Edit: hey found this right now its worth a glance or two

http://homerecording.about.com/od/recordingtutorials/ss/recordingdrums.htm

as is this one

http://www.audiorecording.me/category/recording-and-mixing-drums

this is very well put together as well

http://www.audio-production-tips.com/mixing-drums.html
 
ahjteam said:
The thing with my approach on the mix is that if you start with bass and kick, you get the low end set right from the start, which at least for me is the most problematic area.
Click to expand...

I think that's really smart. I always end up messing with the low end through multiband compression and/or channel EQ in mastering, and it would be way better to nail it at the start of the mix. The side-chain compression is a good idea too - I've tried it before but always somewhere near the end of the mix, and it was tough for me to notice its affect.

By the way, how do you feel about this master? Do you think it's overcompressed/clipping? Is it loud enough? Balanced?
 
jpsmithrocks said:
This mix sounds a lot better... I'll take another crack it through monitors this tomorrow but again this one sounds a lot better great job... I'll call one of my guys in the morning and see if he'll tell me what he does... He's make the sicks drum mixes ever... he's snare is epic...

Edit: hey found this right now its worth a glance or two

http://homerecording.about.com/od/recordingtutorials/ss/recordingdrums.htm

as is this one

http://www.audiorecording.me/category/recording-and-mixing-drums

this is very well put together as well

http://www.audio-production-tips.com/mixing-drums.html
Click to expand...

Thanks! Yeah, putting it all together in the mix is where I think I have the most difficulty. Here's a little preview of my drum samples alone, if you'd like to take a listen to them like that. The first is no mastering, no busses. The second has everything.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6920288/drums no mastering.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6920288/drums with mastering.mp3

By the way those articles do look very helpful =] I'll have to read up
 
jpsmithrocks said:
What made you decide to go the IK amplitube route as opposed to the line 6 Pod farm route?
Click to expand...

I use Amplitube 3 as well.
My Opinion: Pod Farm isn't any better than Amplitube.

Amplitube gets a bad wrap on some forums because most people don't take the time to unlock it's true potential.
Amplitube also just sounds much more realistic to me.
in addition, you get many more usable sounds on it than on podfarm.

I'm actually stoked on the new version of Amplitube coming up. they made a deals with more companies to enhance their emulations further.
 
jimwilbourne said:
I use Amplitube 3 as well.
My Opinion: Pod Farm isn't any better than Amplitube.

Amplitube gets a bad wrap on some forums because most people don't take the time to unlock it's true potential.
Amplitube also just sounds much more realistic to me.
in addition, you get many more usable sounds on it than on podfarm.

I'm actually stoked on the new version of Amplitube coming up. they made a deals with more companies to enhance their emulations further.
Click to expand...

What do you mean not taking the time to unlock its true potential?

I would agree with you... I think line 6 stuff sounds horrid until its processed with something... I also very much dislike the AD/DA of their interface when using them straight into a DAW... this of course was addressed in Pod Farm to an extent but having played any amp I've ever wanted to... I think that their tones sounds sound stale and do not come to life until some post processing is done...
 
I agree with Jim. Pod Farm and Amplitube are on an equal level in my head, it's not like one is strictly better. Pod Farm gets you that super clean Sturgis sound, and that's about all you can get it to do and sound good. Amplitube sound more realistic, more metal, and in my opinion it can handle more gain before it starts sounding overdistorted. My band's in the same genre as bands like TDWP or Attack Attack, but we're trying to set ourselves apart with a more "metal" production and sound - harder and faster drum parts, smaller drum sizes, more aggressive guitar tones and mixing, that sort of thing.

And I don't have a preset, because I'm constantly tweaking around with it. But this is about where I would start, then adjust based on pickups, guitar, playing style, genre, etc:

I use the 150W head, in fact I just load up the factory preset "Metal Lead V" and tweak from there. I start with bass and treble at 5, and mids a bit higher (maybe 7), then mess around from there. Keep that "bottom" knob at about 2 or 3. Then I turn the gain off and slowly raise it until it sounds overdistorted and messy. Then turn it down a bit. I usually keep turning it down as the production goes on. This time it landed at 3.
Before the head, there's an overscream adding gain, so only adjust the gain on the head once you have this loaded. I set it almost the same way I would in real life - drive at about 9 o'clock, level at 50% to make it match, start with the tone all the way off and turn it up if you need to.
Then I load up the 4x12 Metal T 1 cab preset. Turn the room mics level all the way off. Put a 57 as mic one, right in the center of the cone, and then slide it over a bit to the right. Then put the Ribbon 121 next to it as mic 2, sitting directly to the right and overlapping a bit. This mic should be right on the right edge of the cone. Set your noise gate and all that and you're good to go.
 
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