One thing I will note is that the production still isn't quite there yet. You can hear from these examples that they sound more like demos than properly mastered tracks. The piano ballad is fine, but anything with guitars and bass has a lot of uneven levels. It tends to compress the first half and then everything gets louder as the song goes on. You can see it clearly on the sound wave when you put the track into an editor. It's better than it was, but still some way from what I'd consider close to studio quality. Also I hate the washy cymbal sound. That's still not been fixed.
New album Foregone out February 2023
- Thread starter TheJestersDoor
- Start date
The Grayfox
Nija
I read that you can only upload 120 second clips for "covers." Is that actually the case? If so, how did you give it enough material to make the Clayman and ATFRT covers so accurate? Splicing together clips? I'll probably do it for a month and see what kind of weird shit I can create.
Nah you can upload full songs now. Think the 120s is an older model limit. Ideally you'd upload a cover or good quality live recording if possible, just to err on the side of caution as real songs are technically against the TOS. But Suno trained their entire fucking model on copyrighted material, so the chances of them giving a shit as long as you aren't trying to monetise it is extremely small, I'd wager.
In Flames teasing coordinates that reveal the location of LevinSound studio in Gothenburg.. interesting.. new music being recorded back home? Maybe it’s nearly time for a new thread..
ThePhobiac
be at ease
It is around the time when you'd expect them to be prepping for a new album, but there are a lot of comments on socials about some kind of festival, so not sure if it's album related or something else.
The Grayfox
Nija
It is about time for them to head into the studio and deliver another disappointment. But on the plus side, the forum will be active again, so there's that...
Even if its mostly us talking shit about bad it is.
Seriously though. I saw a picture of the band the other day and my initial thought was "who the fuck are these guys... oh... Jesus."
Even if its mostly us talking shit about bad it is.
Seriously though. I saw a picture of the band the other day and my initial thought was "who the fuck are these guys... oh... Jesus."
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ThePhobiac
be at ease
The Grayfox
Nija
Seems so. Their only show in Sweden in 2026 apparently. Because they're doing another tour of the US, of course. I'm shocked that there are seemingly still so many US fans of this old band that hasn't released a particularly good album in at least 14 years. Enough to make it worth them repeatedly going back there anyway.
I'd really like to go to one of the Brinner shows one day, might be the best chance of hearing some pre-Clayman songs in person I'd never have the chance to see otherwise. However, the one thing I've always thought looking at the videos from Borgholm and Dalhalla is that the crowds are really tame - the setlists and performances are generally as good as it gets and it's met with the energy of people watching a round of golf. It's not like they can't work a crowd anymore - the Summer Breeze and Graspop pro-shot videos both showcased huge crowds that were really into them, and it's not like they've never played to a really raucous Swedish crowd before, I'm not sure what it is. Maybe with this one being in the city, it'll be different.
Xpyro125
Active Member
- Dec 1, 2021
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I mean
Their music’s been Americanized for a while now, but now it’s been infused with totally rad modern metalcore, dude, so of course it’s got more American fans than anything. Foregone rules, don’t you know?
In all seriousness, for a modern metalcore album, it’s actually a tiny bit better than the shit we’ve been getting for a couple years now. Not a big compliment, but credit to where it’s due.
Their music’s been Americanized for a while now, but now it’s been infused with totally rad modern metalcore, dude, so of course it’s got more American fans than anything. Foregone rules, don’t you know?
In all seriousness, for a modern metalcore album, it’s actually a tiny bit better than the shit we’ve been getting for a couple years now. Not a big compliment, but credit to where it’s due.
The Grayfox
Nija
I think the people that go actually want "the hits" so when the band pulls out something super rare, like December Flower, they don't know how to react because they're there for whatever video they saw on YouTube. I'm sure there are some diehards there too, but even them, the majority still prefer their 2000's-present stuff. And that's fine. I mean, that's what the band has cultivated. but they're trying to go on this nostalgia trip except they alienated the base that would be interested in that a long, long time ago. There's a reason that bands CAN do that stuff. Dark Tranquillity, for example, who was just doing a tour in support of both Character and The Gallery -- they never made their old fans feel like they were idiots for liking those albums, or even preferring them to their newer stuff. How many bands are playing "Album A, B or C" in it's entirety for their fans? A shit ton. And they're usually old albums. And they can do it because, again, they didn't push their fan base away.
If In Flames did decide to do some tour where they played TJR or Whoracle or Colony in full, I would go. But how many other fans from back then would? I don't know any personally. So you'd end up with a club full of people who either didn't know that was the point of the tour or thought "oh, I'll go check it out anyway", not realizing that those songs are nothing like what they're used to. And then what do you get? A room full of people sitting on their hands not reacting, which is where that glorious sound byte of Anders saying "nobody cares when we play those songs" came from. Yeah, because YOU made them stop caring.
Fucking guy.
It's a shame, too, because the old songs still sound really cool live. Stand Ablaze is epic in a live environment, but good luck getting more than 5% of the audience to care, because unless they were going to IF shows in the late 90s, or are hardcore fans like us, they'll likely have zero idea WTF is going on.
I don't think the band really want to play their older stuff anyway. You've heard it before from Anders and Bjorn - they genuinely think the stuff they churned out post-Clayman is musically superior to what came before it. They consider it "more mature songwriting", which I would only consider true in a very specific sense. It's more mature in the sense that it is more likely to be commercially successful and get people to jumpdafuckup muddafukkas at their shows. If that's the definition of mature songwriting then yes, sure. But in reality both lyrically and musically everything is significantly dumbed down once you get past the classic albums. Even more so once you go past 2011. Honestly it's difficult to even classify it as the same band after Siren Charms because of Benson's significant involvement.
I saw a facebook post from Metal Hammer asking a question of the worst album disappointments from favourite bands. Literally the first comment I saw was "In Flames - Battles", lol. I only scrolled through a few of the comments, but caught Siren Charms and STYE in there too. In Flames really did divide their fanbase like very few bands have ever managed, yet somehow still kept going. It's perversely impressive, honestly.
I think another part of the problem is how eclectic the band's output is within the metal genre. Lunar Strain is somewhat primitive MDM. Subterranean is more like gothic MDM. TJR & Whoracle what you'd probably consider classic MDM from Gothenburg around that time period, with a distinctly Swedish folky touch on TJR especially.
Easy to forget that even Colony and Clayman divided the fanbase way back in the day. This was a transition into what would be considered melodic metal with harsh vocals. Still technically MDM by virtue of the structures, but it's hard to compare to TJR and Whoracle and say it's a similar sound. TJR and Colony are audibly very different albums, and Clayman is even further away from the TJR/Whoracle sound. Up until that point though, still top-tier music if you enjoy melody and lyrical depth.
Then you've got Reroute which is still the Clayman formula in many respects but majorly simplified. There's so much melody packed into Clayman, and Reroute tones that down a lot - or buries cool leads into the mix where they can barely be heard, unlike Clayman where every lead and melody is at the forefront of the mix. It's a conscious shift to allow the vocals to carry more of the melodic weight, which... well, your mileage may vary - and for many it did, back then. I like Reroute and always have, but nostalgia may play a big part in that. If I'd been an In Flames fan from '96 or something it might have hit me in a much more negative way.
STYE is a full descent into American-style metal. Melodies and songs in general greatly simplified to their absolutely basic elements. Again, I don't hate the album nowadays. I appreciate it for what it's trying to do, but my goodness, what a departure from the likes of Clayman - which, let's be clear, had the exact same band members and had only been released four years prior. It's little wonder many fans at that time were utterly crushed upon hearing it.
Come Clarity is this odd mashup of the Clayman style, with many of the leads and melodies right back at the front of the mix again, and the metalcore-ish sound with vocals still doing their bit to add to the melody. Probably In Flames' best attempt at the new sound they were going for at the time. I'm a fan, but again, there's nothing there for a fan whose strong preference is music like TJR or Whoracle and has no interest in metalcore or autotune singing.
I don't even know how to describe ASOP. Weird sound, bad production, lazy songwriting... not even sure what genre I'd classify it as. Far removed from anything they'd done before, really. With better production and vocals it could have been interesting, albeit still very difficult to classify. This is where the band's popuarity started to decline, understandably so. ASOP was not a worthy follow-up to Come Clarity, which was probably the band's overall peak as a popular metal outfit.
SOAPF is quite unique, almost an AOR vibe mixed with a distinctly Bjorn-flavour of In Flames - which makes sense as he wrote all the music, with Jesper having departed. Very different again, but better production and the music was distinctive if a little repetitive at times in terms of riffs and structures. A sign of things to come as far as Bjorn was concerned.
SC, a total clusterfuck of an attempt at an album. I don't need to say anymore. Almost universally despised on release, even by nu In Flames fans. Terrible decision making all around, and seems to have destroyed Anders & Bjorn's confidence in themselves as from that point onwards we've had Howard Benson's In Flames. It's hard to even classify Battles as an In Flames album with its California pop-metal vibe and wafer-thin production. Unforigveable that significant amounts of the tracks were penned by Benson and his cronies. To the bin with this garbage.
ITM kinda felt like SOAPF if it had been infected by the Benson-virus. There is some good stuff there, imo the best Bjorn had done since 2011, and Anders actually did a pretty good job on this one too. Well, whoever did his vocals in studio did a decent job, anyway.
Foregone... just as fake as Battles, but maybe worse because it's Benson and the band trying to fake being back to da roots and heavy metal again. At least with Battles they weren't trying to hide how lame they'd become. Foregone is the proverbial pig in lipstick - squint and it almost seems passable. Listen closely, though, and it's just a hollow shell of a band that passed their expiry date over a decade ago.
So yeah, not hard to see why fans at shows struggle to get into the really old era of songs. It's so far removed from the various leaps in genre and composition across the decades since that it basically sounds like the band doing cover songs of some obscure MDM group. Well, when it comes to them playing stuff like Stand Ablaze it basically is, as zero of the current members were even in the band when it was written. But nonetheless, they made their bed and now they have no choice but to lay in it. They kept da hitz in the setlists with incredible zeal, hence fans across their many bizarre iterations appreciate those. Play any other song off one of those earlier albums - even from 2000 - 2011 - that aren't one of da hitz, though, and once again significant portions of the audience are confused.
I don't think the band really want to play their older stuff anyway. You've heard it before from Anders and Bjorn - they genuinely think the stuff they churned out post-Clayman is musically superior to what came before it. They consider it "more mature songwriting", which I would only consider true in a very specific sense. It's more mature in the sense that it is more likely to be commercially successful and get people to jumpdafuckup muddafukkas at their shows. If that's the definition of mature songwriting then yes, sure. But in reality both lyrically and musically everything is significantly dumbed down once you get past the classic albums. Even more so once you go past 2011. Honestly it's difficult to even classify it as the same band after Siren Charms because of Benson's significant involvement.
I saw a facebook post from Metal Hammer asking a question of the worst album disappointments from favourite bands. Literally the first comment I saw was "In Flames - Battles", lol. I only scrolled through a few of the comments, but caught Siren Charms and STYE in there too. In Flames really did divide their fanbase like very few bands have ever managed, yet somehow still kept going. It's perversely impressive, honestly.
I think another part of the problem is how eclectic the band's output is within the metal genre. Lunar Strain is somewhat primitive MDM. Subterranean is more like gothic MDM. TJR & Whoracle what you'd probably consider classic MDM from Gothenburg around that time period, with a distinctly Swedish folky touch on TJR especially.
Easy to forget that even Colony and Clayman divided the fanbase way back in the day. This was a transition into what would be considered melodic metal with harsh vocals. Still technically MDM by virtue of the structures, but it's hard to compare to TJR and Whoracle and say it's a similar sound. TJR and Colony are audibly very different albums, and Clayman is even further away from the TJR/Whoracle sound. Up until that point though, still top-tier music if you enjoy melody and lyrical depth.
Then you've got Reroute which is still the Clayman formula in many respects but majorly simplified. There's so much melody packed into Clayman, and Reroute tones that down a lot - or buries cool leads into the mix where they can barely be heard, unlike Clayman where every lead and melody is at the forefront of the mix. It's a conscious shift to allow the vocals to carry more of the melodic weight, which... well, your mileage may vary - and for many it did, back then. I like Reroute and always have, but nostalgia may play a big part in that. If I'd been an In Flames fan from '96 or something it might have hit me in a much more negative way.
STYE is a full descent into American-style metal. Melodies and songs in general greatly simplified to their absolutely basic elements. Again, I don't hate the album nowadays. I appreciate it for what it's trying to do, but my goodness, what a departure from the likes of Clayman - which, let's be clear, had the exact same band members and had only been released four years prior. It's little wonder many fans at that time were utterly crushed upon hearing it.
Come Clarity is this odd mashup of the Clayman style, with many of the leads and melodies right back at the front of the mix again, and the metalcore-ish sound with vocals still doing their bit to add to the melody. Probably In Flames' best attempt at the new sound they were going for at the time. I'm a fan, but again, there's nothing there for a fan whose strong preference is music like TJR or Whoracle and has no interest in metalcore or autotune singing.
I don't even know how to describe ASOP. Weird sound, bad production, lazy songwriting... not even sure what genre I'd classify it as. Far removed from anything they'd done before, really. With better production and vocals it could have been interesting, albeit still very difficult to classify. This is where the band's popuarity started to decline, understandably so. ASOP was not a worthy follow-up to Come Clarity, which was probably the band's overall peak as a popular metal outfit.
SOAPF is quite unique, almost an AOR vibe mixed with a distinctly Bjorn-flavour of In Flames - which makes sense as he wrote all the music, with Jesper having departed. Very different again, but better production and the music was distinctive if a little repetitive at times in terms of riffs and structures. A sign of things to come as far as Bjorn was concerned.
SC, a total clusterfuck of an attempt at an album. I don't need to say anymore. Almost universally despised on release, even by nu In Flames fans. Terrible decision making all around, and seems to have destroyed Anders & Bjorn's confidence in themselves as from that point onwards we've had Howard Benson's In Flames. It's hard to even classify Battles as an In Flames album with its California pop-metal vibe and wafer-thin production. Unforigveable that significant amounts of the tracks were penned by Benson and his cronies. To the bin with this garbage.
ITM kinda felt like SOAPF if it had been infected by the Benson-virus. There is some good stuff there, imo the best Bjorn had done since 2011, and Anders actually did a pretty good job on this one too. Well, whoever did his vocals in studio did a decent job, anyway.
Foregone... just as fake as Battles, but maybe worse because it's Benson and the band trying to fake being back to da roots and heavy metal again. At least with Battles they weren't trying to hide how lame they'd become. Foregone is the proverbial pig in lipstick - squint and it almost seems passable. Listen closely, though, and it's just a hollow shell of a band that passed their expiry date over a decade ago.
So yeah, not hard to see why fans at shows struggle to get into the really old era of songs. It's so far removed from the various leaps in genre and composition across the decades since that it basically sounds like the band doing cover songs of some obscure MDM group. Well, when it comes to them playing stuff like Stand Ablaze it basically is, as zero of the current members were even in the band when it was written. But nonetheless, they made their bed and now they have no choice but to lay in it. They kept da hitz in the setlists with incredible zeal, hence fans across their many bizarre iterations appreciate those. Play any other song off one of those earlier albums - even from 2000 - 2011 - that aren't one of da hitz, though, and once again significant portions of the audience are confused.
Xpyro125
Active Member
- Dec 1, 2021
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Back when I saw them live, the rest of the audience was kinda confused when Anders said they’d be going back to the beginning for one song, with a couple people thinking it was going to be Behind Space. I don’t entirely blame them though, especially since Subterranean is technically an EP even though we see it as a bit of an honorary album here.
It got some cheers from the audience when I went, more than during other performances, but the reception definitely paled in comparison to the rest of the setlist.
Honestly, I think that at this point, that much is just their lazy attempts to hype up new music. I do think that they feel limited by their older music— And that’s genuinely understandable, it seems like they want to just make whatever these days and let it be. I’m down to stand by that method so long the result is good.
Shame the results haven’t been good most of the time this past decade.
That reminds me of how so many people went into Letters by Cyhra expecting the next old IF-styled melodeath album… When Jake E was the vocalist. I genuinely think that save for not getting some really cool progressive songwriting, we got as close as we’d get to that with songs like Karma. Sure, THE exists, but I think they’re far more 2000s-2010s melodeath than classic, and that isn’t me complaining.
Colony and Clayman (Colony specifically) was full of wonderfully progressive songwriting, particularly in terms of structures and solos, and I just really like that. For that, I think Colony actually does work as a natural transition from Whoracle to Clayman since Whoracle had some progressivisms of its own too.
Come Clarity, especially after having dug into so much 2000s metalcore, is nothing short of quintessential melodic metalcore. I genuinely have no idea how they went from STYE (Which I do still like as an unfortunate nu metal fan) to it, then to ASOP. Peak songwriting, peak lyrics, genuinely fantastic vocals from Anders, and perfect production for the compositions we ended up with. It’s crazy that they ended up making the perfect album for its time at that time specifically, but I really do think it threads that needle between screamo hardcore but heavier/more metal and more mainstream, post-hardcore stylizing but with great riffs and real metal songwriting. Weirdly enough, when I think of the kind of music I’d envision bands who were inspired by TJR and Clayman making, this is it.
And having dug into a lot of 2000s metalcore and post-hardcore, that much just makes it so much clearer how ASOP failed. Weirdly, the pre-release EP is full of absolutely worthy CC successors, combining CC’s sound with a bit more of that post-hardcore-inspired MySpace metalcore sound. Pretty sure Abnegation actually had a demo put onto MySpace too.
I think a lot of the guitar melodies on the album are fantastic, the drumming’s fantastic, but the guitar tone and attempt at groove (chugging) generally suck when they’re not going more melodic. Move Through Me’s a big exception, but the overall production’s just a letdown. The vocals suck too, and the lyrics feel about as genuine as Battles. There’s a lot of surprisingly great emo stuff (Not MCR type shit, I’m talking stuff ranging from Alexisonfire to Saetia) out there, and even Disconnected does it beautifully, but I don’t think the majority of the album does it right. There aren’t too many songs (Big exception being Alias) that fuck with the structure or have as many acoustic or ambient guitar breaks as old post-hardcore stuff, and there isn’t enough conviction in the feeling of any of it for me. Mr. Highway’s Thinking About the End came out just a year after, and it’s oozing with feeling and conviction, going from the ‘disrespect your surroundings’ breakdown (you know the one, it’s been memed to hell and back) to an ambient clean guitar break. Even if the production’s not as raw as I like, it’s still incredibly visceral and real, and that’s what I think ASOP is missing. Come Clarity had that feeling in spades.
Also, the lyrics on the EP songs were way better than the full album. Tilt’s grown on me so fucking much after making my acoustic compilation.
I’d get into everything else now, but I have to go into work and don’t want to lose this draft. Cheers.
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