New Ideas

[cobhc]

Now, as most of you know, I completely suck ass at writing stuff (hence why I only post short clips, or I end up doing cover songs) and today isn't any different haha, I've got the first few riffs down pretty solidly, but then I hit a brickwall and can't think of anything more, or write something that doesn't fit at all. I'm pretty happy with the first riffs on this, the palm muted stuff is repetitive I know, but with vocals I think it'd be fine, but finding something that comes next that kinda ties in, is a bitch for me, so forgive the very poor song writing. I think maybe I need to get in a band, and have other peoples views and opinions dropping in to maybe help me out, and get me kickstarted with writing stuff.

Anyways, rant over, I'll give a rundown of what I used for everything, to avoid questions later on (incase anyone likes it lol). I played all the Keyboards, "Bass", and Guitars. Used EWQL Silver for the Organ/Strings, and Korg Legacy for the Lead. Epiphone Les Paul in Eb, into 2 tracks of Guitarsuite for Guitars, Pitchshifted Guitar for the "Bass" running into AmpegSVX. And DFHS for drums, with some old Tama samples that I think Ronnie posted a while back. Waves SSL EQ/Comp on most tracks, URS Strip on Drums and FreeVerb2 on Drums, Sonnox Oxford Limiter on the 2buss, I was going for sort of a newer Sonata Arctica kinda vibe with this, and also I didn't wanna squash it too much with the limiter, so lemme know what you guys think of it.


http://www.upload.celtiaproductions.co.uk/uploads/riffsnew.mp3

 

[Jaymz]

2buss? Is that the master ol' chap?

 

[kev]

Keyboards were nice fausto, only listenin quielty tonight but sounds good to me.

 

[cobhc]

2buss? Is that the master ol' chap?

Aye, output channel, master, 2buss, etc.

 

[abyssofdreams]

ah man, I hear ya.

stitching things together so they flow nicely is the hardest part for me and I believe for most musicians.
it's the biggest task to accomplish (apart from playing the instrument itself) imho.

i use different "techniques", depends on the mood and the stuff I'm writing (wether it's some thrashy stuff, more melodic, slow, fast and so on...)

there's no rule of thumb though many musicians who have studied music will disagree here.
you can write "correct" arrangements according to the melodies/harmonies by whatever suble changes you include in your song so it might sound right but most bands just play riff after riff, see if they can get them to extend each other (intelligent breaks, melody switching whatever...), lol if that makes sense...

what I do quite often is to take a piece of paper, listen to some songs that come close to what I want to achieve and try to analyze the structure of the song.
how many parts are there in total, what exactly do the guitars play, how does every instrument influence each other blablabla.

however, this will help the "body" of the song, but the "soul" is the musician. you know, what your mood is, how much you live the music you play.

another thing is: do you like what you've written, recorded?
now obviously you would reply: sure! if not I wouldn't have done it...
but I mean try to be more objective with your results. this is hard since you know you've done it but let's say try to imagine that it's some "random" band that is playing...
try to seperate yourself from that point of view that it's your creation you're listening to. then focus on things that annoy you as a listener, not a "creator". write it down.
do some other things. come back to the song later on. re-check what you've written, see if you can add something to it. be your fuckin' worst critic. try to change the things that you don't like. try to feel the song (now this is getting awkward, isn't it). what do you expect the song to do? does it bore you somewhere? the list goes on... you get the idea...

I know people who spend months after months working on one single song...

Oh and do not try to "find" your ideas by trying out riffs and playing notes randomly without thinking. try to materialize songs/melodies/riffs in your head and see if you can catch that vibe and realize it.

sorry for the long post, I hope I didn't miss the point...
anyways it's late and a cold beer is waiting for me, haha

 

[Habsburgs]

How can some bands write 20 songs a week before going to the studio ...

 

[abyssofdreams]

ah, there's bands who write songs while IN the studio...
but that's mostly bands who can afford to stay weeks/months in the studio and have released a bunch of records and prolly found their style...

 

[derfbonker]

I find that it I always get caught up in tweaking sounds and crap, when I am trying to write. It helps me to make myself forget all of that, and force myself to write and entire song first, just one guitar. All the harmonies and leads can come later. It also helps me to try and decide what I want to do with the song. I ask myself if its gonna be brutal the whole way through, or slow and brooding in the beginning and pick up at the end, or if I'm gonna want a big clean break in the middle. That way I focus my writing, and have a goal to aim for.

 

[billcraftmetal15]

Writing really involves a lot of inspiration, you lose that, you're gonna be on a rocky road.
But saying that, once you have got an idea, if you aren't too sure what to do with it, then thats where you can take a totally uninspired almost mechanical approach, just think about structure, what you want to happen in the song, decide what are the key points you're aiming for, then just think about how to go about getting there. I totally agree with what abyssofdreams has said, planning and writing down your ideas and developing your structures and themes is a really intelligent and sensible way of going about it, for me i have to be really ocd about everything i write, as soon as i've got a riff, i'll jam on it for a while, then it's straight into Sibelius (a notation program) where i'll get it written up, so i can see whats going on, that and it helps me remember, because i have an awful memory for riffs and ideas when i come up with them. So yeah, i get it all on there, write out a whole arrangement for that riff drums/bass/guitars/keys whatever i'm going to have, then play it back, play it on guitar, and it'll either hit me in the face exactly what i should do with it, or if it doesn't, i'll take a more systematic approach, go listen to some music, get a bit of inspiration maybe, or failing that just analyze other songs and see what they are doing, and then just find a structure or melodic development that would work well for my riff, and go from there. On a somewhat random but related note, I find I absolutely must notate any riffs that are in an odd timing, say for instance I wrote a riff that was like this time wise, 5/8,5/8,5/8,7/8,5/8,5/8,5/8,9/8, i had to get that all written out to really get it down properly. Might just be me.

More on topic, your song sounds cool man, definately have some ideas going there, I like the part in the riff (I think its on the third repeat) where you drop down to an E, and I think it'd be cool where you go to your palm muting if you used the E to move down to Eb it'd fit nicely i reckon, because when you add that low E you're giving a Eb Phyrigian tonality to it, so it would resolve to the root which would be cool! Just my opinion though! (I apologize if i got anything wrong theory wise there its damned late so thats gonna be my excuse...think its all sound though)

 

[Radd]

abyssofdreams is spot on with his post.

I have a few ideas for what you have now that you can take with a grain of salt. First off it sounds very radio friendly rock/post punk like a mix of Green Day and Sponge. That's cool but don't know if it's what you are going for. If not, I'm thinking you should just go with it anyway and see where the song takes you.

I like the first part the way it is. When it goes to the next part, leave out the the guitars and just have the bass and drums and keys play and have vocals come in right away with them for 2 measures then have the chugging guitars join in for another 2 measures with continued vocals. The last part could be the chorus. If you're going for metal though, I wouldn't use that beat...you could slow the beat down with the snare and put some medium/fast double bass with it or you could go balls out and put a grind/blast beat instead. Doing that may not sound quite right though being that the previous parts sound so rock and it may not be that good as a chorus. After that maybe repeat the whole thing. Then I would wright some kind of breakdown bridge maybe by going real low like "E" (don't know what you're tuned at) with maybe some starts and stops and a beat that's not repetitive and follows the riff closely. If you are already playing the lowest note like "E" in the previous riffs (which it sounds like you are) I would still try it anyway. You could still come up with something pretty cool that could fit nicely. Then maybe repeat the very first 3 parts again and finally repeat the 3rd part (chorus) a 2nd time or more and fade out.
Like I said, radio friendly. Basic verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, verse, extended chorus, end. This is the vibe I get from the clip. Then changing the writing style in the future may come a bit easier.

I just spent a lot of time thinking about this and typing and retyping so yeah, I hope it helps. If not, then nevermind.

 

[abyssofdreams]

Radd, funny you have them in your sig, cause my first thought was, that his clip sounds kinda like paradise lost somewhere...
which of course isn't a bad thing but then again I didn't listen to a lot of their stuff lately...

 

[kev]

ah, there's bands who write songs while IN the studio...
but that's mostly bands who can afford to stay weeks/months in the studio and have released a bunch of records and prolly found their style...

The black album was one of these wasnt it