Next Purchase: MD421 vs. AT4040?

[JeffTD]

I've realized I've got enough cash to get a ~$300 mic, mainly for vocals, but it'd also be nice to use it on guitars, acoustics, rooms, add another for a set of OH's later, etc...

I was looking at the AT4040 , as it would would be useful for vocals, acosutics, *maybe* on the guitar cab, rooms, etc...

But the MD421 is about the same price used, and I know those can be amazing when mixed with a 57 on a cabinet. I've also heard that they can be used for vocals - it's an LDD, like the SM7. It'd be for growls and screams.

I'd probably go with the SM7 if I had a better setup, but I keep reading posts saying that they're really hard to work with for an inexperienced engineer, as they need so much gain, and really benefit from a nice pre.

Has anyone tried the MD421 on Vocals, or has general experience with the AT4040? I know they're different animals, but I'd be using them for slightly different things.

I've only got an i5 and 57, so maybe it'd be best to add an LDC to things, rather than another dynamic?

 

[KeithRT99]

i like the 421 on alot of things. i haven't had experience with the 4040. The 421 actually makes a good hihat mic, guitars, bass, toms, kick... i've even heard that it makes a good vocal mic, although i haven't tried it myself. I would go with it, unless you need a mic specifically for acoutic guitar/vocals/OH.

 

[JeffTD]

Yeah, that's the thing. OH/Acoustic aren't really important, I don't do any of that at the moment... but if it could work for Vocals AND gats, that would rule anus.

 

[Zombietakeover]

in my old band we used a 421 u5 the older model on my vocals

you can go here to listen http://www.myspace.com/draytonsawyer

 

[Zombietakeover]

and another thing what you said

"I'd probably go with the SM7 if I had a better setup, but I keep reading posts saying that they're really hard to work with for an inexperienced engineer, as they need so much gain, and really benefit from a nice pre."

is that really true i was just getting ready to purchase an sm7 and now with your comment you just scared me because im not an expert at engineering but i do own an GT THE BRICK which isnt the great preamp in the world but it aint to bad.....it has +55 available gain.....would that be enough?

 

[JBroll]

Lots of biscuits. You don't need microphones.

Jeff

 

[JeffTD]

and another thing what you said

"I'd probably go with the SM7 if I had a better setup, but I keep reading posts saying that they're really hard to work with for an inexperienced engineer, as they need so much gain, and really benefit from a nice pre."

is that really true i was just getting ready to purchase an sm7 and now with your comment you just scared me because im not an expert at engineering but i do own an GT THE BRICK which isnt the great preamp in the world but it aint to bad.....it has +55 available gain.....would that be enough?

Not sure... I REALLY hope Metalkingdom chimes in - he has experience with all three, IIRC.

 

[Zombietakeover]

own shure's website detail page for the sm7 it says it needs +60 gain

but what im thinking is if you were using it for heavy vocals like me.....then if you are screaming in the mic you wouldnt so much gain....i dunno

Not sure... I REALLY hope Metalkingdom chimes in - he has experience with all three, IIRC.

 

[CJWall]

I'd say get an SM7. I believe it needs at *least* +54 dB of gain, but the more the better.

As long as you can supply it with the gain you need, I think you'll be fine. I think someone was saying inexperienced engineers have trouble with it because these inexperienced dudes don't realize how much fucking gain it actually needs, and get bad, noisy results with their shit pre's.

Decent pre with enough and you're golden.

 

[NickL]

I keep hearing everyone say that the SM7 is great for screaming vox but nobody's said why exactly. Could someone elaborate? I'm thinking of picking up either one of these or an RE-20.

 

[Daunt]

I keep hearing everyone say that the SM7 is great for screaming vox but nobody's said why exactly. Could someone elaborate? I'm thinking of picking up either one of these or an RE-20.

IMO it's because of the smoother top end. You can really compress it to death and it still sounds good. It's very rare that I need to use any de-essing with it.

DSS3: SM7 is actually a SDD.

 

[JeffTD]

Ah ok, thanks for that, Daunt!



I'm heavily doubting that my Firepod pre's have enough to drive it, and I wasn't planning on getting an external pre until after I had the mic.



Looking at the site - PreSonus says they have up to +60db of gain on tap, the instruction manual claims it at +54db. Hmmm... would this be enough to justify snagging the SM7? I plan on getting a Rane MS-1b shortly after, which puts out 66db of quite clean (from what I've heard) gain, so that should work beautifully.

 

[JBroll]

Boost input gain in your DAW - at 24 bit I'm sure you're not going to be losing too much detail because you're peaking at -12 and not -2, or whatever it turns out to be, so I'd wager that as long as you're not scraping the bottom of your ADC's quiet range you'll have something to work with. Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that one of the lovely things about digital audio was that whole 'not having to worry so much about using all of the bandwidth we have available' - especially when working with 24 or 32 bit audio.

Jeff

 

[~BURNY~]

I'd consider trying the Beyerdynamic M88 which is known as one of the best vocal dynamic mic ever and can do a lot of other things...

 

[Daunt]

I'm heavily doubting that my Firepod pre's have enough to drive it, and I wasn't planning on getting an external pre until after I had the mic.

If you are recording growls and screams, go for it. But for recording speech, Firepod is not the best choice.

 

[Matt Crooks]

I've not used the SM7, but I have used the 421 and the 4040. Both the 421 and 4040 work well on guitars. From what I remember of the 4040 (I don't own one) it was smoother across the full range than was the 421. The 421 has a scooped sound that works well on guitars and toms. I've also used it for vocals and it did fine for that.

I've heard lots of good things about the SM7, so I can't imagine it would be a bad choice, I just can't personaly speak to it.

 

[NickL]

i happened to catch a shitty HBO documentary about porn actors yesterday (uhhhh... it was... for a school.... thing....) and one of them was trying to cross over into the rap scene and she was shown recording into an SM7

 

[Matt Crooks]

i happened to catch a shitty HBO documentary about porn actors yesterday (uhhhh... it was... for a school.... thing....) and one of them was trying to cross over into the rap scene and she was shown recording into an SM7

It was Hetfield, wasn't it?

 

[PhilR]

Having used the CAD M179 for a while now I don't think I could really justify the cost of a 421 (although I would have loved some for drums a while back). So far everything we've used them on has given us great results, and fuck knows they're hella easier to get into position on a drumkit.

 

[metalkingdom]

If you're looking for a really versatile mic on the cheap, then check out the Heil PR-40. It's output and clean sound is far superior to any other dynamic mic. It works really, really on well male vocals, bass guitar, kick drums, toms, and loud guitars. On the right vox (not high-pitched), it actually sounds more like a LDC than a dynamic mic. It looks cool, too. I got mine brand spankin' new for $225.

The 421 is a legendary mic, but I have yet to use it or see anyone ever use it on vox. There's a little switch at the bottom of them to select "M" (music) or "S" (singing). The general rule of thumb is to make sure it's on "M" when you're micing something up - which makes me believe that it pretty much blows for vocals. Definitely a great choice for cabs and toms, though.