next purchase - sm7 or beta 57/58?

[Fragle]

Hey guys,

over the course of my last few projects i started to feel the need for another vocal mic.
As of right now i use a Rode NT2a as my main workhorse, and i'm still digging it a lot.
still, there are some singers that just perform best with handheld mics, and whenever that's the case i mostly hand them the old trusty SM58.
However, i find the 58 has an abundance of low mids and lacks highs and high end definition in general :/ it really needs a lot of eq treatment to sound right in a mix, so i'm looking for some alternatives.
i've pretty much narrowed it down to the sm7b, beta 57a or beta 58a right now. i know the sm7b often get's used even in professional projects, but on the other hand the betas are 1) cheaper 2) probably are better suited to be used on other sources like guitars/snare etc and 3) should also be pretty good live vocal mics, unlike the sm7b.

so, what do you think would be the better option for my needs? based on internet research the beta series has less mids and a more forward sounding high end response, which is pretty much what i dislike about the sm58.
however, given the reputation of the sm7b i feel i can hardly go wrong with it....

and of course, between the beta 57 and beta 58, which one would you choose?


i'm mainly recording death/thrash/black metal. interface/preamp is an rme fireface.

 

[JeffTD]

The SM7b isn't exactly bright or detailed in the top end, but it is goddamn amazing. You're going to need a decent pre with it, though, so that'll add to the price.

 

[~BURNY~]

The beta 57 is a good all-round mic. It sounds quite good on vocals, it's not bad (but not my first or even second choice) on guitar cabs and is very nice on snare drums. The SM7b is definitely better on most vocals though in my experience.
I personally despise the stock Rode NT1 and NT2 but I loooooove my modded NT1's (more so than the SM7b but that's almost apples and oranges).

 

[Studdy]

I'd go with SM7b or the modified 57. There is a modded version available with a different transformer, not sure what else is different but I believe it extends the top and bottom and makes the 57 sound a little more the sm7b.

 

[rvs0002]

Before you drop $350 on a sm7 hoping it's going to be light years different from your 58, check out the article here: http://www.homestudiocorner.com/shure-sm7b-vs-sm58-with-audio/#more-1544.

I own a 58 and had a SM7 and did some shootouts myself. Is the 7 better? Yes, without question. A little better definition, seemed to take eq a little better. How much better? IN MY OPINION, maybe 5% better.

I had too hard of a time making it (the 7) sound good in a mix, had to eq too much and finally decided to stick with condensers. Your mileage, as always, may vary.

 

[tedtan]

If you're looking for dynamic mics that have a more condenser-like response, I would recommend you check out these mics before making a decision. They are likely closer to what you are looking for than the Shures you listed (but keep in mind they are dynamics, so they still won't sound exactly like a condenser).

• Beyer M88
• Telefunken M80
• Heil PR30 and PR40
• ElectroVoice RE20

If you can raise your budget, there are quite a few mic companies making hand held condensers for live use that you might look into as well. I don't have any experience with them to make a recommendation, but I'm sure you can find clips online to get a basic feel for the different models.

 

[~BURNY~]

Before you drop $350 on a sm7 hoping it's going to be light years different from your 58, check out the article here: http://www.homestudiocorner.com/shure-sm7b-vs-sm58-with-audio/#more-1544.

I own a 58 and had a SM7 and did some shootouts myself. Is the 7 better? Yes, without question. A little better definition, seemed to take eq a little better. How much better? IN MY OPINION, maybe 5% better.

I had too hard of a time making it (the 7) sound good in a mix, had to eq too much and finally decided to stick with condensers. Your mileage, as always, may vary.

I'd suggest you change your monitor system and that 5% might become 25%.

 

[egan.]

Whenever the "SM7 just sounds like a 57 with a gap" thing comes up I just shrug my shoulders. I love both but the sm7 has far more detail and balance. For $350 there is no better vocal mic IMO.

 

[mva801]

You cannot go wrong with an sm7. And don't think it's just a vocal mic. It's one of my favorite snare mics, if you have a drummer with some space to fit it in there. Great on anything a 57/58 would go on.

FWIW I demoed that Telefunken m80 on a few things and didn't really like it. Almost TOO much like a condenser.

 

[Mago]

+1 on can't go wrong with the sm7.
It's pretty cool on 4x12s too....

Works great on a lot of vocals, especially if you toy around with the eq settings on the mic itself.

And fwiw yeah, a lot of times I have to work a bit more to get it sit in the mix, but when I get it to sit right it sits better than most of the other mics I've tried so far...including some LDCs. Also need less narrow cuts, and more broad sculpting with the sm7....I mainly used SDCs before the sm7 though, which isn't ideal in a lot of cases, even if it can work too.

but ymmv of course. always depends on a lot of factors.

But for me as a vocalist I love the sm7 alone for the fact that I can use it hand held easier than other mics...just feels the best, also compared to the 58.


Beta58 is a really awesome bang for your buck live mic thought! Liking it more than the standard 58

 

[cfh11]

another vote for the sm7b here... i actually really like it on high gain guitars too

 

[rvs0002]

I'd suggest you change your monitor system and that 5% might become 25%.

Hi Burny:

I'm afraid I'd have to change my voice as well...I've heard it through some really nice monitors in a very detailed mixing environment and it just didn't work FOR ME, which is why I threw out terms such as IN MY OPINION and YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY. I was just shocked when I set the 58 and 7 side by side, sang a part and threw it in a heavy rock mix. As I said, there were slight differences. Did I love either one of them? Nope. Was one worth $250 more TO ME? Nope. Could I have lived with either of them? Yep. And even at 25%, does that make it work another $250? Could one narrow the gap with creative eq and processing? My guess is yes, as good as you guys are at mixing.

Just giving one man's opinion, since that is what the op was looking for.

I know people who love the 7b and swear it's a whole different beast entirely from the 57/58 family. More power to 'em. I also move too much whilst singing (can't help it), and the 7 seemed to react fairly quickly to changing locations, even small ones, causing some timberal differences in my tracks. I never did try holding it though, like I've done with a 58...I've seen many folks do that. Should have tried it.

Too bad it's sometimes hard to get a hold of mics to test with and really find the one that meshes with your voice. That's really the only way to know for sure.

I would love to hear a comparison between a 7 and a RE20 though. I've always wondered about that.

Sorry to derail. Just wanted to clear up the fact that best mics for voices are always highly subjective and I was just voicing what I found FOR ME.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[JeffTD]

I blows my mind that people think $250 is a huge savings amount when it comes to a vocal mic.

 

[~BURNY~]

Yep, same for me but hey, I'm not judging.

If you're happy with a 58 which is a fine mic, then more power to you rvs2000.

Not sure why you felt the sm7 was more affected by the acoustical environment than other mics though. It's quite the opposite in my experience.

 

[Mago]

^I think he ment that he had the sm7b on a mic stand, not handheld. So he moved around a lot and that affected the sound, guessing because the sm7 has more distance to the diaphragm than the 58 for example...

Johnny, I mixed the Holy Diver Ronnie James Dio Tribute song back when we did that collab, and I'm pretty sure you also did vocals for it.
Do you remember which mic you used for tha track?

It's been a while, but if i remember correctly I'd understand why the sm7 wouldn't work out for you, since I think you have a middy voice that get's extra amplified by the way the sm7 has its mids set.
So I'd understand why the 58 would work a bit better for you, but I guess a overal more scooped mic could still fit better.

Just a thought!

 

[MatrixClaw]

Before you drop $350 on a sm7 hoping it's going to be light years different from your 58, check out the article here: http://www.homestudiocorner.com/shure-sm7b-vs-sm58-with-audio/#more-1544.

I own a 58 and had a SM7 and did some shootouts myself. Is the 7 better? Yes, without question. A little better definition, seemed to take eq a little better. How much better? IN MY OPINION, maybe 5% better.

I had too hard of a time making it (the 7) sound good in a mix, had to eq too much and finally decided to stick with condensers. Your mileage, as always, may vary.

I absolutely guarantee that the conclusion this guy came to is become of the preamps he was using, not the mics.

I used to be of the same mind - The SM7b was only a bit better, so close that I could get there with a few EQ adjustments... then I got some good preamps and the mic became a whole different beast. SM58 now totally fails in comparison to my SM7b.

 

[Deathprayer82]

think about a AKG D7, really good dynamic mic, quiet near in sound to a Condenser...much brighter/clearer than a usual dynamic like sm58. i use it for all styles of vocals

 

[slo77y]

+1 Sm7b. Never used anything else on screaming stuff since i got it

 

[rvs0002]

^I think he ment that he had the sm7b on a mic stand, not handheld. So he moved around a lot and that affected the sound, guessing because the sm7 has more distance to the diaphragm than the 58 for example...

Johnny, I mixed the Holy Diver Ronnie James Dio Tribute song back when we did that collab, and I'm pretty sure you also did vocals for it.
Do you remember which mic you used for tha track?

It's been a while, but if i remember correctly I'd understand why the sm7 wouldn't work out for you, since I think you have a middy voice that get's extra amplified by the way the sm7 has its mids set.
So I'd understand why the 58 would work a bit better for you, but I guess a overal more scooped mic could still fit better.

Just a thought!

Hi Mago! Yes, I used the 7 for that. You did a great job too! I just listened to that the other day for the first time since it was done. You are correct, it is the mids that really make the sound displeasing (for my voice). You probably had to do a lot of eq cutting and volume automation on my parts!

I do think everyone is mis-understanding what I was saying a bit, but I didn't want to get into a pissing match or sound like I was trying to argue, because that wasn't my point at all and I didn't want to derail the thread and every time I tried to clarify I seemed to make it worse. I'll try to clear things up again, one last time.

The SM-7 didn't work FOR ME, but it works great for a lot of folks. I used it on two different vocalists that I was recording for their own project and they were really happy with the end product. I found my 58 to be in the same ballpark soundwise, **but I don't use it for vocals ever**, was just stating something that I tested out of curiosity because I owned both. I sold my 7 thinking that if I ever needed to use something like that for a project, I could just use my 58. Could be my pre's (though I used a few different ones), my speakers (although I also took my files to a nice mixing house a friend owns just to see what it sounded like through his system), or just my ears.

Was I telling the OP to not buy a 7? Not a chance. I simply noticed that he already had a 58 and didn't sound like he cared much for it and had to do a lot of the same stuff I did with both my 58 and my 7, so I was suggesting he may not care for the 7 either and before he dropped $350 he may want to do some more investigation, or maybe try something else.

That was it. So in conclusion:

1. Wasn't implying the 7 sucked or was not usable.
2. Wasn't telling him not to buy it
3. Wasn't saying that $350 is too much or not enough for a vocal mic (I have two that cost more and one that cost less and I use them all)
4. Wasn't trying to tell anyone to use a 58 as your main vocal mic (although if that is all you have it will certainly work)
5. Was just trying to offer some helpful advice, hopefully the OP understood that

 

[rvs0002]

I absolutely guarantee that the conclusion this guy came to is become of the preamps he was using, not the mics.

I used to be of the same mind - The SM7b was only a bit better, so close that I could get there with a few EQ adjustments... then I got some good preamps and the mic became a whole different beast. SM58 now totally fails in comparison to my SM7b.

Cool! So what kind of pre did you end up going with?