Omg I cant fix the mud in my Mix... Help.

[Contra Studio]

Hi guys, Im trying to fix this issue that seems to be whats holding me back this past year and its mud in my mix. Ive been talking with my ME and he says its the bass and low mid that have all the mud. Now I tried my best to tune my room for mixing but since I don't have all the tools at the moment to get a room reading, Im trying my best to work with what I have. I will provide a few pics and audio samples for you guys to listen to and I hope at least to keep some positive/negative feed back.

First to the audio samples.
Ok so I had the bass player (a bit off in his take but was in a hurry) came in the other day and re-did this track real fast, this is not set in stone but only as an audio example or test I wanted to try. Originally we used 3 tracks, Gain DI, and the other two tracks are mic up with a Carvin 1200 Redeye head, Ampeg 8x10, Re20, and MD421. So it was crap cause it was all muddy. So I tried something different, we used two new tracks, clean DI with a SansAmp pedal ver. and a MXR M-80 gain which what we will be listing too.
I used the THE SYSTEMATIC MIXING GUIDE (surgical approach) from Ermin.

Heres a sample of just Bass and Kick
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10714692/Scorn%20Bass%20Only.mp3

Heres a sample of the whole mix
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10714692/Scorn%20with%20all.mp3

And last a sample with out the bass in the mix
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10714692/Scorn%20no%20Bass.mp3

Those are some small clips over all, and they are not mastered, its only a mix.
I notice with I mute the bass the whole mix lacks body and low end, like its thin and week. I tried cranking the GTR and more punch on the kick but it still lacks body, that feel the bass adds.

I have some pics now to show you what I did.
Heres a the track view of my set up, two tracks, one clean and one gain into a aux.

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Heres a Pic of the SansAmp chain

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Heres a pic of the MXR

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And last heres a pic of the Bass Aux

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Last heres just an audio clip of bass (No Eq no comp etc. DRY) and drums.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10714692/scorn%20bass%20NFX.mp3

I just want to thank anyone for taking the time to read, listen, and checking the pics out. Im doing this just to better my skill to be a better AE. Here we go...

Moss

 

[Contra Studio]

Dump

 

[bryan_kilco]

Only on laptop speakers right now but it sounds like your are totally correct in the fact that the bass guitar is the culprit.

Have you EQ'd the low-mid crap away? I'd also try to add some more highs in there. Were the strings new?

 

[Contra Studio]

Only on laptop speakers right now but it sounds like your are totally correct in the fact that the bass guitar is the culprit.

Have you EQ'd the low-mid crap away? I'd also try to add some more highs in there. Were the strings new?

The strings are new. I did have more highs, but it was to clanky, Korn sounding. Yeah so I though I did eq the low mid but I guess my mix room is not helping with the mix. Check out the pics and you can see how much I have done.

 

[Contra Studio]

Bump

 

[infectdsniper]

try messing around with dips in the 500 area. i find myself cutting around -15 there alot

 

[ArthurD]

The mix is good, but I fell its overcompressed.
Thw unprocessed bass is sounding very powerfull IMO.
One good idea is to decrease the guitar volume and eq the highs (crank a bit) until they fell ballanced. You might get more clarity.
Try adding 2-3db with a High Shelv from 3khz, with a wider Q.

Why are you limiting the bass so hard?
No need for that much compression and limiting.
I think you might be overdoing it. Remember, when you add a compressor in series you are not adding the factor, but multiplying it. If you add a 2:1 and then a 2:1 comp you will have a 4:1 factor of GR.

See if this helps:
1) Use the bass rider on the Bass tracks, just to get more control to the sound (AKA, to use less compression)
2) On the Sansamp track first take of some energy from 300-500hz, add a peak compressor OR a limiter, but just to catch the peaks, not to destroy the sound and then filter it.
3) On the Clean track go with a clean compressor with light settings. Filter from 300-400 beyond.
BUS the bitches
4) Then use an overall compressor (C1) with medium/almost slow attack and long release. -3~-4db GR, 10:1. Or use LA2A GR about 5 db.
5) Next use the peak compressor (1176) 4:1, 12 o clock attack release to taste, -5db max.
6) Use the limiter softly just to catch flawsy peaks, DONT DESTROY YOUR SOUND HERE.
7) Add a chorus to get a wider sound (if you like)
8) If you like, use the multiband comp just to tight the bottom end a bit more.
9) Normally, I would add about 2-3db on the lowend here with a linear phase eq.


OR

Use the distressor with -14db of GR and EQ.

 

[Contra Studio]

The mix is good, but I fell its overcompressed.
Thw unprocessed bass is sounding very powerfull IMO.
One good idea is to decrease the guitar volume and eq the highs (crank a bit) until they fell ballanced. You might get more clarity.
Try adding 2-3db with a High Shelv from 3khz, with a wider Q.

Why are you limiting the bass so hard?
No need for that much compression and limiting.
I think you might be overdoing it. Remember, when you add a compressor in series you are not adding the factor, but multiplying it. If you add a 2:1 and then a 2:1 comp you will have a 4:1 factor of GR.

See if this helps:
1) Use the bass rider on the Bass tracks, just to get more control to the sound (AKA, to use less compression)
2) On the Sansamp track first take of some energy from 300-500hz, add a peak compressor OR a limiter, but just to catch the peaks, not to destroy the sound and then filter it.
3) On the Clean track go with a clean compressor with light settings. Filter from 300-400 beyond.
BUS the bitches
4) Then use an overall compressor (C1) with medium/almost slow attack and long release. -3~-4db GR, 10:1. Or use LA2A GR about 5 db.
5) Next use the peak compressor (1176) 4:1, 12 o clock attack release to taste, -5db max.
6) Use the limiter softly just to catch flawsy peaks, DONT DESTROY YOUR SOUND HERE.
7) Add a chorus to get a wider sound (if you like)
8) If you like, use the multiband comp just to tight the bottom end a bit more.
9) Normally, I would add about 2-3db on the lowend here with a linear phase eq.


OR

Use the distressor with -14db of GR and EQ.

Thanks dude, you said you think the bass sounds over compress or the over all mix??? I should try that cut on the Gtr and add highs. Plus I do like the tone of the raw bass but its way to much in the mix. I do believe less is more sometimes but it didn't work here. Ill try that bass chain you spoke about when I get back in town. Thanks for the info and help.

 

[ArthurD]

Thanks dude, you said you think the bass sounds over compress or the over all mix??? I should try that cut on the Gtr and add highs. Plus I do like the tone of the raw bass but its way to much in the mix. I do believe less is more sometimes but it didn't work here. Ill try that bass chain you spoke about when I get back in town. Thanks for the info and help.

Nice! My point is that the chain I showed is a lot of processing for well recorded sound. More is almost overkill with plugins.
Although, I would aproach as you if I had a bad sounding bass, but i fell that this is not your case.

Give the RAW a try! =) be gentle, jut limit about -3 db max at final!
Cheers!

 

[Contra Studio]

So after talking with the ME, he said he meant the sub low were the issue 40-100 and that's coming from the kick I think. When listening to the tracks I didn't feel the kick, but running in a eq analyzer I saw it was busting at 60 over -40 I'm not sure if that's to much but ill cut back some.

 

[MotherEel]

Use ears first, eyes last.

 

[oroinvictus]

Use ears first, eyes last.

+1

 

[slaytah]

+1

+1