Over Hang Phase issue please help

[pikachu69]

Hello,

Phase is such a hard thing to understand and it frustrates me on a daily basis.

This is my issue. I have two mono OH tracks that were measured (time aligned ) when recorded so they were equidistant to the snare. I have also looked up close in my DAW and they line up really well, I was happy with this.
When I solo the two OH channels (pre EQ) together both panned center and hit the phase reverse on one channel only most of the kick and snare drum information disappears and the cymbals loose volume and tone. I assume that means they are now out of phase and also that they must have been recorded in phase to begin with for that to happen?

BUT, if I pan them both hard LR I don't like the sound, it seems to stay very 'mono' with most of the information staying in the center. I visually confirmed this by using a phase scope. Now if I phase reverse ONE of the OH's, again some of the kick and snare spill disappears but the sound seems to 'spread' more, again, visually confirmed by a phase scope. When the OH's are soloed I can hear the effects of doing this, they both sound good and bad for different reasons but what is correct?
When placed in the mix I seem to prefer the sound of one reversed as the cymbals appear to have more stereo spread but when I just solo OH I prefer the sound of both the same. lol.
Not sure if that makes sense but if anyone has any ideas for me I would LOVE to hear them. Hopefully its just something silly I am doing lol.

Cheers.

 

[BLUElightCory]

Stereo "width" is caused by the difference in content between the left and right channels - the more difference between the left and right channels, the more perceived "width" in the sound. The trade-off for this difference is phasing when the two tracks are summed to mono.

From the nature of your complaint it sounds like your left and right channels are very similar to each other - perhaps the mics were not spaced far enough for a "wide" stereo image.

If you want stereo width with a phase-coherent snare, simply move the two overheads farther apart but keep them equidistant from the snare. This will create more stereo "width" but the snare will stay centered.

 

[pikachu69]

Stereo "width" is caused by the difference in content between the left and right channels - the more difference between the left and right channels, the more perceived "width" in the sound. The trade-off for this difference is phasing when the two tracks are summed to mono.

From the nature of your complaint it sounds like your left and right channels are very similar to each other - perhaps the mics were not spaced far enough for a "wide" stereo image.

If you want stereo width with a phase-coherent snare, simply move the two overheads farther apart but keep them equidistant from the snare. This will create more stereo "width" but the snare will stay centered.

Wow,

Thanks for the reply, that sounds exactly like what my issue is, it makes perfect sense to me. I really appreciate your time.
So I will be better off leaving them in phase and have a narrower stereo image since I can't change mic position now?
I will experiment with mic position when I next record drums.

Thanks once again.
Cheers.

 

[Trevoire520]

Yeah that's the best way to go. Unless you've got some spot cymbal mic's or stereo room mic's there's not going to be any way to get them wider without messing around with a stereo widening plugin, which will most likely turn into a phase smeared mess anyway.

Just stick with your more centered drums for now and let the guitars define the width of your mix. If you listen to some commercial records you might be surprised how up the middle the drums are sometimes (maybe not in modern metal though)

 

[pikachu69]

OK will do. Over all it does sound better left in phase.
I have three mono room mics of varying distances, ATM I am going L C R, While I like the sound of it (low in the mix) is there a better way to do it? Is stereo room the better way to go?

Cheers.