Pirates FTW
- Thread starter narcossintese
- Start date
Hmm, interesting, and pretty despicable of the European governments if it's true - it's always hard to morally take sides in situations like this, whether "terrorism" (and the type of piracy their doing is just a lesser form of what could be called terrorism IMO, though of course it's not really harming civilians) can ever be condoned, even if it's the poor oppressed country fighting against the big bad empire. I don't doubt there's been a lot of exploitation of their waters now that the government is unable to do anything about it, and I definitely find myself sympathizing with the pirates after reading this, but it's just one of those situations where I'd really have to read more to decide.
J.DavisNJ
\m/
While I can't agree with the waste dumping, I do not like the slant of that article. Justifying Somali piracy seems a bit ignorant. Right, it's ok to feel bad for them for living in squalor and having zero government since 1991, but zero of their actions can be accepted or tolerated. I'm more of an absolutist in these types of situations. And just because civilian casualties, or the casualties of the crews may be nil, it doesn't make it ok. These dudes have AK-47s, RPGs, and who are we to say that they won't use them?
Syampthy and compassion are fine, but they do not affect me in any way when trying to decide if these guys are justified or not in their actions. Terrorists are terrorists, plain and simple. If you use fear, violence, threats, and weapons to take something that isn't yours, then you deserve what you get.
-Joe
Syampthy and compassion are fine, but they do not affect me in any way when trying to decide if these guys are justified or not in their actions. Terrorists are terrorists, plain and simple. If you use fear, violence, threats, and weapons to take something that isn't yours, then you deserve what you get.
-Joe
Well I don't really have much to counter that Joe, except that I used to feel that way, but am coming to realize that the world isn't that simple, and trying to force that kind of absolutism on things is just oversimplifying - what other means do they have to try to remedy their situation? It's always a difficult balance to strike between compassion and rationality, but both are equally essential to us as humans!
Line666
Fendurr
- Sep 2, 2006
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If you had your livelihood stolen from you I'm pretty sure you'd be doing anything to keep yourself alive as well.
Bottom line is we stole all the fish from their seas and are now dumping waste into it, what are you supposed to do if you are a Somalian fisherman and now there are no fish left. No fish = no job = no money = no food = starvation.
Bottom line is we stole all the fish from their seas and are now dumping waste into it, what are you supposed to do if you are a Somalian fisherman and now there are no fish left. No fish = no job = no money = no food = starvation.
Cyanide_Anima
yooveesevenbeekay
I dunno, its hard to justify their cause, though I believe a lot of that article is true, its not the first place I've read that pirates got a bad rap. Though, same could be said about any international dispute. Though they are desperate, their country cannot take care of them any longer. Who could say if they were in that situation wouldn't do the same. Its a matter of perspective. Going off topic, how we justify invading entire continents taking over entire countries in the name of "peace" and "morals". They are doing what they have to do to live. Arrrrrr.
J.DavisNJ
\m/
In this situation I think it's justified. Like I said, I can sympathize with them as human beings...the same way I can sympathize with the Palestinian people in Gaza for having a terrorist organization governing them. No innocent human suffering should ever be celebrated. I think this is pretty universal.
It's hard for me not to have an absolutist view in this situation. While I can understand their motivation for pirating these ships, I can't condone it. In the same light, I can understand why someone who is abused as a child, mutilates animals, and is a sadist, becomes a serial killer lol.
My key point here is that it does not justify any of their actions. You and I live in the civilized world. We obey the law, we work, we pay taxes. For us to justify any of this is wrong in my eyes. Granted, I'm sure many of these stories about fuel dumps and fishing are true, BUT if you'll notice, these pirates are indescriminate about who they steal from.
The most publicized of all, the USS Bainbridge was an American ship. The pirates cheered with joy when they found out it was an American ship. Little did they know that we refuse to pay ransom money and have excellent sharp shooting Navy Seals.
I think there is probably just a slight miscommunication here. I can understand what motivates these chaps, but I can't condone or justify any of it.
-Joe
Line666
Fendurr
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J.DavisNJ
\m/
Öwen;8367116 said:
As far as you know...
We have all heard of the elections, but if we in the west are doubting the outcome of the Iranian election, what makes you think the Gaza elections were 100% fair?
Also, it's safe to assume that a good chunk of the Palestinian people do not like Hamas or their practices.
Anyway, I don't want to get off topic, so PM me if you want to discuss it further.
L8.
-Joe
Line666
Fendurr
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Nice way of having the last word that
Don't think I will though, I'm pretty confident I have a totally different viewpoint from yourself, and I'm also pretty confident that no one ever really changes their stance from arguments (or debates if you will
) on the interwebs, so I'll leave the massive reposte-counter reposte-counter counter reposte arguments for people that have the spare time. 
J.DavisNJ
\m/
Öwen;8367185 said:Nice way of having the last word that
Don't think I will though, I'm pretty confident I have a totally different viewpoint from yourself, and I'm also pretty confident that no one ever really changes their stance from arguments (or debates if you will
I wasn't trying to change the topic, I just don't want this to be a 10 pager that has nothing to do with piracy lol. I've stated my views pretty clearly. And yeah, I won't change how I feel so let's leave it at that. Yeeeehooooooooooo!
-Joe
J.DavisNJ
\m/
Alestorm totally should have had that spot in the show...
-Joe
Erkan
mr-walker.bandcamp
Yeah I've heard about us western countries loading carriers to the max and dumping stuff like TVs, refridgerators and stuff like that in poor countries in Africa. It's no surprise we rape their sea either. You would have to be INCREDIBLY stupid to think that your own country is a saint in this world. There are no good guys in the world, everybody is doing some shady shit at some point, it's just how our reality works.
We rape them sooooooo much harder than they rape us with their assaults on ships and shit. I wonder if they, like us, are talking about justying actions at the moment. "Did you know western countries dump their shit here? Do you think that's justified?" "NO! I am an absolutist, and that is not justifiable!"
To summarize my point: I FUCKING LOVE TURTLES!!
We rape them sooooooo much harder than they rape us with their assaults on ships and shit. I wonder if they, like us, are talking about justying actions at the moment. "Did you know western countries dump their shit here? Do you think that's justified?" "NO! I am an absolutist, and that is not justifiable!"
To summarize my point: I FUCKING LOVE TURTLES!!
P-E
Munchkin
J.DavisNJ
\m/
Yeah I've heard about us western countries loading carriers to the max and dumping stuff like TVs, refridgerators and stuff like that in poor countries in Africa. It's no surprise we rape their sea either. You would have to be INCREDIBLY stupid to think that your own country is a saint in this world. There are no good guys in the world, everybody is doing some shady shit at some point, it's just how our reality works.
We rape them sooooooo much harder than they rape us with their assaults on ships and shit. I wonder if they, like us, are talking about justying actions at the moment. "Did you know western countries dump their shit here? Do you think that's justified?" "NO! I am an absolutist, and that is not justifiable!"
To summarize my point: I FUCKING LOVE TURTLES!!
Right, right...I see where you're goin' with this duder.
Sure, we are all guilty of some shady dealings, but that doesn't mean it evens out the playing field or anything. For all you know some of those ships are completely innocent of any wrong doing. After all, the Gulf of Aden is a gigantic shipping route. Those dudes don't give a shite who they steal from.
It's like saying, well I'm down on my luck, poor, government failed me, those dang Mexicans TOOK MY JOB! I'm gonna go rob someone indiscriminately now.
THEY TOOK OUR JOOOOOBS!
On a sidenote: I FUCKING LOVE SKITTLES. GOD'S HONEST TRUTH!
-Joe
But the fundamental difference there is that you're coming from the hypothetical perspective of a lazy entitled parasite who won't take responsibility for his own actions and lot in life, rather than someone who genuinely has been utterly fucked up the ass by the big bullies of the world (with homosexual tendencies)
J.DavisNJ
\m/
True, true...it was a shite example, but both are victims of circumstance. One is admittedly in a much more shite situation that the other, yes. And in this economy, it goes way beyond laziness. SO many people I know are losing their jobs. Talented people, professional people. So I might not be that far off in this day and age. ;-)
Somalis have basically ZERO options in life due to their shit infrastructure and ZERO government, I'm simply saying it doesn't make any of it right. In fact, I agree with most points you guys make from the perspective of the average Somali.
It's easy for all of us to have an outside perspective, but if one of us worked on the Bainbridge, we would probably look at it quite differently. Any of those dudes could have been killed. They were just damn lucky.
Maybe I'm not rebellious enough for you guys, hehe.
-Joe
Glenn Fricker
Very Metal &Very Bad News
J.DavisNJ
\m/
Right, right...you got me.
Isn't this how many nations are formed?
People are brutal. \m/ I'd like to think we as people (all of us) in 2009 are more civilized, but that obviously isn't true.
-Joe