maybe they can take all of their AK's and RPG's and turn them against their pathetic excuse for a government, and demand a higher standard of living...
Pirates FTW
- Thread starter narcossintese
- Start date
maybe they can take all of their AK's and RPG's and turn them against their pathetic excuse for a government, and demand a higher standard of living...
J.DavisNJ
\m/
Ah shite, I almost forgot...
The Euros that came to Canada certainly weren't very nice to the native Aboriginal people. ;-)
Just wanted to level the playing field in response to your post. I'll admit, I'm not as educated in that area as I am with American history, but almost any nation has some blood on it's hands in regards to it's foundation.
-Joe
There´s also more about this situation on this article.
Dude, they are dumping NUCLEAR WASTE and there´s people that still have the courage to call the pirates terrorists? Please, put yourself on their situation at least one time. Imagine that somalia destroyed all their ecosystem and now is not only raping yours, but also throwing nuclear garbage that´s killing your family just because they don´t want to spend some money to get rid of it. You get pissed and what do they do? Manipulate the entire global media against you and throw a fucking multinational armada to blow your resistance.
And then people wonder why there are some crazy guys out there so thrilled with the idea of throwing atomic bombs on certain countries.
Dude, they are dumping NUCLEAR WASTE and there´s people that still have the courage to call the pirates terrorists? Please, put yourself on their situation at least one time. Imagine that somalia destroyed all their ecosystem and now is not only raping yours, but also throwing nuclear garbage that´s killing your family just because they don´t want to spend some money to get rid of it. You get pissed and what do they do? Manipulate the entire global media against you and throw a fucking multinational armada to blow your resistance.
And then people wonder why there are some crazy guys out there so thrilled with the idea of throwing atomic bombs on certain countries.
in all fairness, almost every "civilization" in human history has come about by stamping out those who were there before them
unless a group of people truly were the 1st ones to settle certain lands, whoever's there now whooped some ass to get there...
J.DavisNJ
\m/
Haha, wow dude. Way to have an over-generalization about the nuclear waste dumping and: "...guys out there so thrilled with the idea of throwing atomic bombs on certain countries" Which guys are you talking about exactly? Iran? North Korea? Those are the only two I can think of. If not, then rethink what you say because it makes your post look retarded.
Also, I'm American, and I've seen no mention of any American dumping in that article, soooo I don't know what your direct beef is.
I am not condoning the dumping in any way. It's bad. People dump nuclear waste = bad. Clear, right? I sympathize with them as humans, I do. Whether you believe it or not.
I'm defending my viewpoint that it's terrorism...plain and simple. It doesn't just affect European ships, but American ships too.
Soooo, because Europe and the USA are imperialist swine, then they the whole lot of them deserve to have their ships taken over by armed gunmen? That's the tone I'm getting from your posts.
I just can't wrap my head around this liberal mentality. Are some Somali pirates good? Are some bad? They have suffered only at the hands of Europeans who dump toxic waste there? C'mon now.
-Joe
I think the only way to decipher whether there's any point in this argument advancing is to get this out of the way: Joe, do you believe terrorism is never justified? Cuz if so, then that's a pretty fundamental impass to any more convincing!
J.DavisNJ
\m/
Terrorism by definition? No. Terrorism, by modern standards, alludes to hurting, or possibly hurting, innocent people to further your own agenda or to gain something. That is terrorism to me. Plain and simple.
In my eyes, armed uprising against a clear, unlawful, and identifiable target WITHIN your society can be justified if they are intentionally and unlawfully oppressing their people in situations that are beyond their control. The Warsaw uprising is a great example. Not against some assholes that decide to dump their waste carelessly in the sea. I do think they should be held responsible for this, but not at the hands of Somali gangsters in dingies with AK-47s.
Do you really think these guys dumped their crap there to intentionally kill a shitload of Somali people? I think not. Are they careless and condescending dicks? Yes!
-Joe
Oh yeah? WELL...
Sorry, I couldn't resist
Anyway, I hear what you're saying, but the argument could be made that citizens of a country are complicit in its actions and do nothing to try to stop them, so that puts blood on their hands, at least to some degree. I mean, of course I'm kinda self-incriminating with that argument, but still, I'm just presenting it.
And what do you mean by a clear, unlawful, and identifiable target WITHIN their society, if these foreign powers that are polluting the Somalis' waters and taking all their seafood are most definitely outside of their society?
Sorry, I couldn't resist
Anyway, I hear what you're saying, but the argument could be made that citizens of a country are complicit in its actions and do nothing to try to stop them, so that puts blood on their hands, at least to some degree. I mean, of course I'm kinda self-incriminating with that argument, but still, I'm just presenting it.And what do you mean by a clear, unlawful, and identifiable target WITHIN their society, if these foreign powers that are polluting the Somalis' waters and taking all their seafood are most definitely outside of their society?
J.DavisNJ
\m/
Oh yeah? WELL...
Sorry, I couldn't resist
And what do you mean by a clear, unlawful, and identifiable target WITHIN their society, if these foreign powers that are polluting the Somalis' waters and taking all their seafood are most definitely outside of their society?
Marcus,
I'm saying that it's the wrong way of handling things. It's open water and Somalia has no 'real' standing government right now. I expect this behavior from them, the same way I expect criminals that came from a shitty neighborhood, with an absolute shit school system, with a criminal record, to keep committing crime. That doesn't mean that I condone it or identify with it personally. That's my main argument here. I don't know why you guys just can't accept that! It's fine if you disagree, but I think you've picked it apart beyond it's capacity.
You can argue that the people "raping their seas" and dumping chemicals in their waters are the identifiable target, but I think it's a stretch. First of all, the article cites no sources for any of it's "facts." I'm not saying it isn't happening, but like a typical liberal article, they sum it up in one convenient article about how ALL their food is being taken from the sea and the poor Somali people have to defend themselves to any degree.
By clear and identifiable target, refer to the Warsaw uprising, which I'm sure you're familiar with. There is a big difference from the Jews fighting in vain against their Nazi suppressors and Somali pirates indiscriminately taking over ships for monetary gain, because they are essentially one of the poorest nations in the world. Again, for the bazillionth time, their circumstances don't justify their acts against random ships.
By the way, isn't this the same water that is being used to dump toxic, nuclear waste...? Surely the Europeans wouldn't be so stupid as to hoard fish poisoned with toxic waste! ;-)
-Joe
Glenn Fricker
Very Metal &Very Bad News
No debate from me on the subject of the treatment of Natives. It was, and still is, in many cases, reprehensible all around.
You were just getting a little bit preachy on the Pirate subject & needed a little grounding.
J.DavisNJ
\m/
Preachy? Gee, thanks for the assessment...lol.
Preachy, no. I just become enthused when we cover certain topics and will defend myself rather than resorting to fanatical claims, calling people dicks, or any of that jazz.
Its all good though, debate is healthy.
-joe
WTF I didn´t even wrote USA or America anywhere on my post
But anyway, as north americans are only touched when they are the subjects (something that Michael Moore cleverly explored), let´s talk about USA.
The definition of "terrorism" is the use of violence (or threat) for political/idealogical goals.
Examples of terrorism:
When USA demmanded Iraq to give their leader (Saddam Hussein) or else they would bomb the whole country (which they actually did live on tv).
When USA invaded Afghanistan and stole the power based on imaginary lies.
Now let´s think about what the pirates are doing: Taking hostages.
What would you call when more than 20 countries setup an armada to stop Somalia from interfere on what they reserved to them (stay poor, hungry, sick, being stolen and continue to serve as the world garbage). In my book this is exactly how you take a nation as hostage. You just point a gun to them and say "You are my bitch. Resist and I blow your head".
J.DavisNJ
\m/
WTF I didn´t even wrote USA or America anywhere on my post
But anyway, as north americans are only touched when they are the subjects (something that Michael Moore cleverly explored), let´s talk about USA.
The definition of "terrorism" is the use of violence (or threat) for political/idealogical goals.
Examples of terrorism:
When USA demmanded Iraq to give their leader (Saddam Hussein) or else they would bomb the whole country (which they actually did live on tv).
When USA invaded Afghanistan and stole the power based on imaginary lies.
Now let´s think about what the pirates are doing: Taking hostages.
What would you call when more than 20 countries setup an armada to stop Somalia from interfere on what they reserved to them (stay poor, hungry, sick, being stolen and continue to serve as the world garbage). In my book this is exactly how you take a nation as hostage. You just point a gun to them and say "You are my bitch. Resist and I blow your head".
Oh boy...
Another post riddled with your 'facts.'And the fact that you cite Michael Moore tells me enough. He is a douchebag of the highest order who will piece together information however he sees fit to make, you guessed it, MONEY.
I know America wasn't mentioned in that article. I think you missed my point. Who else were your posts directed towards then? I seem to be the only one in this thread whole heartedly disagreeing with you.
I'm not even going to begin to touch the Iraq War with someone like you. If I can't agree at all with the level-headed people on this forum regarding it, then it would be a shit storm with you. All I will say is, no, we didn't say we will blow up the entire country.
I don't know where you get your facts from. Oh, and the live TV bombing you are referring to was Baghdad. I didn't realize Baghdad comprised all of Iraq. And right, we went to Afghanistan to steal their power based on lies. It had nothing to do with those behind 9/11 and other terrorist attacks residing there, right? Which "lies" are you referring to anyway? Again, another ridiculous statement based on nothing. So according to you, the evil American imperialists are the terrorists? So how do you feel about 9/11? Was killing over 3,000 people in a matter of hours ok? Just like Somali piracy is ok?
Wait, I better stop myself now. You might come back saying 9/11 was an inside job or that it was carried out by the flying spaghetti
monster.
Have a nice day sir.
-Joe
J.DavisNJ
\m/
Öwen;8368712 said:
Which has zero significance when it comes to where Al-Qaeda or Bin Laden were/are based. Al-Qaeda is a global dealie. Hell, we even have the glorious Adam Gadahn, who is the American representative of Al-Qaeda. An American born 29 year old from Los Angeles.
-Joe
Erkan
mr-walker.bandcamp
None of us know if 9/11 was insider or not... therefore, there is a 50/50 chance that USA are terrorists themselves! Hahaha, god I love that simplistic straight forward thinking
Nah but seriously, I think this thread has gotten a bit "dramatic". It was a fun read though but it seems the point of trying to disprove the other part at all costs has been reached. You guys may continue with the discussion if you like, but I will make an attempt to bring the thread back down to earth! Here we go!
(DON'T HATE ME FOR THIS GUYS, IT HAS TO BE DONE TO KEEP PEACE AND ORDER IN THE FORUM WORLD!)
Nah but seriously, I think this thread has gotten a bit "dramatic". It was a fun read though but it seems the point of trying to disprove the other part at all costs has been reached. You guys may continue with the discussion if you like, but I will make an attempt to bring the thread back down to earth! Here we go!
(DON'T HATE ME FOR THIS GUYS, IT HAS TO BE DONE TO KEEP PEACE AND ORDER IN THE FORUM WORLD!)
J.DavisNJ
\m/
None of us know if 9/11 was insider or not... therefore, there is a 50/50 chance that USA are terrorists themselves! Hahaha, god I love that simplistic straight forward thinking
Nah but seriously, I think this thread has gotten a bit "dramatic". It was a fun read though but it seems the point of trying to disprove the other part at all costs has been reached. You guys may continue with the discussion if you like, but I will make an attempt to bring the thread back down to earth! Here we go!
(DON'T HATE ME FOR THIS GUYS, IT HAS TO BE DONE TO KEEP PEACE AND ORDER IN THE FORUM WORLD!)
Erkan, nooooo! My eyes!!! I've vomited all over my nice shirt!
Nah, but I totally agree about this thread. I've already PM'd narcossitence about it, so all should be good.
-Joe