Playing bass to fit the guitars on faster tracks?

[abyssofdreams]

I always wondered...

what if you have a riff on a guitar that goes like this @180 bpm or faster:

D-------------------------------------------
A------7------5------7---------------------
E--x-x----x-x----x-x----xxx--xxx--xxx--xxx--

how would you play the bass guitar?
would you play the palm mutes too? and palm muted?
and would you play the same amount of notes or leave some out?
also would you just jam along on the E-string or would you use all the higher strings too on their respective notes?

I wonder because even if I play the bass tight to the guitars I play every string "open" so it sounds like a constant rumbling in the back IMHO.

Maybe some bass players can chime in too

 

[James-Doolan]

Im going to be tracking bass to some 180bpm tech brootalz this week and im a guitarist il let you know how i get on

 

[LeviathanMetal]

definatly going to be following this thread...

 

[wishtheend]

I would play the same riff, just move it to play all on the low e string (12th & 10th frets). There's something about the thicker gauge string that gives a bit more chunk that I prefer. For this riff in particular, I'd probley keep my hand resting on the bridge just slightly to kind of mute those first 3 sets of mutes, and for the second half of just straight mutes - mute by choking the string on the first fret right against the nut (not actually fretting, just muting).

If the bass has a good bit of drive though, playing it across both strings would probably sound good. I'd still choke the last chugs the same way - but just pick super agressive on the A string. If you are playing finger-style, when you pluck the A-string, you should be bringing that one finger back after the strike so that it's muting the low E. This will keep the notes from ringing out all over each other.

 

[Metaltastic]

Palm muting bass seems blasphemy to me unless it's for a specific effect; I vote just playing it all open, and possibly just sawing away at the low string if it's too fast!

 

[Suicide_As_Alibi]

Yeah, I'd pretty much go with what WishTheEnd said. The E/A string thing depends on the sound you want - on the E it will sound chuggier and groove better, but on the A they'll twang out and be more noticeable. In this case I'd probably look at what the drums were playing; if they're playing a flowing rhythm, I'd go for the E; if they're more staccato and emphasising the same notes as the guitar I'd go for the A.

Personally, I play exactly as I would on guitar - so I'd palm mute the same notes, and do it all at the bridge. Adding some crunch to the bass makes muting sound a lot better, as the notes are more defined (clean mutes tend to still ring out a fair bit), and it will make it less rumbly. If there were lots of repetitions of something like that, I'd have to play a harmony for some of it too (just on the non-muted notes). Apart from being more interesting, it also stops the bass sounding like just a rumble if it's playing different notes to the guitars.

Steve

 

[ahjteam]

I always wondered...

what if you have a riff on a guitar that goes like this @180 bpm or faster:

D-------------------------------------------
A------7------5------7---------------------
E--x-x----x-x----x-x----xxx--xxx--xxx--xxx--

how would you play the bass guitar?

E-|0-0-12-0-0-10-0-0-12-0-0-0--0-0-0--0-0-0

No palm mutes, with pick and distortion or with fingers and clean tone

edit: Didn't read the other entries, looks like I was thinking the same thing as them.

 

[abyssofdreams]

E-|0-0-12-0-0-10-0-0-12-0-0-0--0-0-0--0-0-0

No palm mutes, with pick and distortion or with fingers and clean tone

edit: Didn't read the other entries, looks like I was thinking the same thing as them.

Yupp, that's how I am doing it atm.
Good to know I'm doing it "right"

 

[egan.]

Palm muting on bass can be awesome (Dave Ellefson!). I would try some different things though. Doubling the guitar riff w/o the palm muting would be the first.
To me the "constant rumble" problem sounds like an issue with the tune or with right hand technique. A lot of guitar players will pick like the are playing guitar which is too weak for bass IMO.
Another thing that might be cool would be only doubling the palm mutes and letting the guitar "solo" the other notes.
Best luck.

 

[wishtheend]

Just curious why muting bass is considered wrong by some? I mute stuff all the time, especially on djenty chug stuff. Though for some reason I use the mute @ the nut technique a bunch since I can vary the amount of damper. I think muted bass chugs with the right amount of gain are the sex.

 

[Splat88]

More often than not I palm mute the bass when the guitars palm mute. If a riff if really fast, I'll play the bass line with half the amount of pick strokes so it remains clear.

 

[Splat88]

I think muted bass chugs with the right amount of gain are the sex.

Yeah, having some bass overdrive is critical when palm muting bass, otherwise it can sound like the cat's ass. With the right sound though, palm muted bass is devastating!

 

[smy1]

Splat is right. Don't play

0 0 7 0 0 5 0 0 7 but instead play

0 7 0 5 0 7

So basically one open string hit instead of two. Much clearer.

Same with double bass parts: just let the note ring instead of playing along with the double bass. Nobody will notice because the percussive attack is coming from the kick drums and you will clear up the low end considerably!

 

[wishtheend]

I think 180 is still plenty slow enough that you can double the riff exactly, especially since there are only 3 accented notes. If there was some actually leady parts, I'd probably scale back the amount of notes - but that riff seems pretty damn easy enough to double it exactly with bass (though I do think transposed all on the low E will sound "heaviest")

 

[DanLights]

I would go with what most say, I prefer it all in the E string, I always do. if you play with a pick you could palm mute, with fingers you could staccato the notes with your alternating fingers which I find a bit more natural than palmmuting for a bass riff. now for this kind of riff I would depend on the drums, if the drums do a standard double bass linear rhythm I would probably just do all open notes (E-0-0-0-0-0-0-0) to go with the linear drums. But if drums emphasize the A string notes of the guitar (like with snare and/or or cymbal hits where those 5's and 7's go) then the bass would do those notes like the guitar. I'm saying if it was me of course, it all depends on your bass playing style (more rhythmic or just bottom end of the guitar kind of thing)

And about the doing one open string instead of two, I agree 100% with wishtheend, don't be such pussies, it's slow enough to follow the guitar as it is.

 

[mr.L.]

Splat is right. Don't play

0 0 7 0 0 5 0 0 7 but instead play

0 7 0 5 0 7

So basically one open string hit instead of two. Much clearer.

Same with double bass parts: just let the note ring instead of playing along with the double bass. Nobody will notice because the percussive attack is coming from the kick drums and you will clear up the low end considerably!

That's what I do most of the time when things are pretty fast (partially because I like the increased clarity and also because playing those fast thrash riffs on bass while maintaining strong attack is harder for me on bass than on guitar). It also depends on what the drummer is doing, it often sounds better to me when you really reinforce the drummer's accents then just playing a lower version of the guitar parts. Harmonizing stuff or playing walking bass lines can also sound real cool on tremelo riffing (not so much on most thrash riffing however). Egan's suggestion of only playing the muted notes is also often very nice to get some more dynamic in the riff. Remember you're playing to support and complement the song not to show how many notes you can cram in there (at least that has always been my view).

Nothing wrong with muting btw, also try out left hand mutes, less bassy and clearer which sometimes sounds better (especially when playing with little or no overdrive).

 

[Fox Mulder]

Just curious why muting bass is considered wrong by some? I mute stuff all the time, especially on djenty chug stuff. Though for some reason I use the mute @ the nut technique a bunch since I can vary the amount of damper. I think muted bass chugs with the right amount of gain are the sex.

LOG does it pretty often and it doesn't sound bad in any way.

 

[lekteri]

LOG sound shit all the way.
Just play ----0---mute-0---mute-0---mute---mute-0---- 4/4

 

[Sickan]

There are a couple of options that I can think of:
If the bass player is good enough he could just double the guitar riff.
At The Gates kind of approach, Jonas used to play in different octaves depending on the riff.
Lamb Of God kind of approach as mentioned, skip the higher notes for a more rhytmical feel.
Venom kind of approach, just play the root notes - half time

 

[DanLights]

There are a couple of options that I can think of:
If the bass player is good enough he could just double the guitar riff.
At The Gates kind of approach, Jonas used to play in different octaves depending on the riff.
Lamb Of God kind of approach as mentioned, skip the higher notes for a more rhytmical feel.
Venom kind of approach, just play the root notes - half time

very nice post, pretty much sums up what we've said. I would only add that you should mainly depend on what the drums are doing to choose one of those options