Programming vs. MIDI Libraries

[Mago]

^yeah these 2 clips both sound nice, but you can't compare them....straight doublebass with a crash as HH is a lot more difficult to get halfway convincing than a beat like in the 2nd clip.
Too much humanizing and it gets sloppy, not enough and it sounds like copy/paste...

And yeah, not even all musicians recognize it, at least I've had albums where other bands would come in and not believe they where programmed.
Granted I'll always mix programmed drums different than real drums...overheads will always be lower on programmed drums for example.

I've been "fooled" too though, with the last Symphony X album. Granted it was played on an e-kit, but normally I can spot also than from a mile.
But I didn't hear it cause I listened to SONGS first and foremost. After Jaymz pointed out it was sd2 I also heared it, but before I only heared the music.
So Song is king anyway, as usual

 

[HeadCrusher]

^agreed.

Ziltoid was DFH (like he couldn't get his hands on any better samples, jeez&#8230 but it's still a great record and I couldn't care less about the drums.

Mixing overheads lower on programmed drums is definitely a great trick that can improve the overall sound a lot.

 

[Sethis]

What do you mean by lower? Compared to a real drumkit for example or to the default setting in the machine? And what does this fix?

 

[HeadCrusher]

Compared to when mixing a real drumkit. You can't really generalize that for every drum VSTi out there but the idea is to make the cymbals not so loud as you would with a real drumkit in order to make their sounding fake less apparent.

 

[Sethis]

Wouldn't that just burry them in the mix? It won't sound any less fake. But finding the right velocities will help greatly.

 

[HeadCrusher]

Velocities go a long way. Lowering the volume is kind of about "hiding" them. Although I'd rather call it "masking". You certainly don't want them to get buried.

 

[HeadCrusher]

I think it's funny how nobody ever says anything about the included MIDI library whenever a new EZX/SDX comes out.

 

[Zerochance]

I always program. I want full control of my drum track. I don't even use the "humanize" option in EZ Drummer, which is what I use. I'd rather edit the MIDI data in my DAW and switch velocity and adjust timing on fills to my liking.

The main use I've found for samples is a way to break a creative rut. They're fun to jam over if you are in a spot where you just can't come up with any new ideas.

 

[Zerochance]

I like to think that I'm fairly good at programming drums. Actually I'm pretty confident that I am. I learned a lot by listening really closely to the drumparts of any kind of music. Eventually you'll figure out how beats and fills are constructed.

I occasionally ask the drummer for two of my old bands, who is also one of my good friends, to program drums for me and send me the MIDI. He's a fantastic drummer, and has a really sideways approach to his instrument, and it's interesting so hear what he comes up with. He likes curve balls, like doing really odd patterns under straight-forward parts that I couldn't possibly come up with on my own.

 

[Machinated]

I think it's funny how nobody ever says anything about the included MIDI library whenever a new EZX/SDX comes out.

a lot of the time I'll be EZX's 75% for the MIDI and 25% for the sounds as they only cost slightly more than the MIDI on its own.

toontrack are the only guys really nailing MIDI grooves too, platinum samples are pretty good but not on the same level IMO.

 

[Alphanumeric]

If its for jamming I'd just write drums in guitar pro and fire up toontrack something something so I know its my own beat kinda.

If its for real, programme everything, every hit, go through every velocity of every hit, slip-edit things slightly for a fill or build up/anticipation, especially toms and cymbals, move cymbals around a lot according to section, only thing I leave on the grid are the kicks and snare if on a downbeat.

Their midi grooves don't groove at all and are either extremely generic/robotic or totally weird.

 

[HeadCrusher]

Zerochance and StateOfSerenity I don't know at what level your programming skills are but maybe the book I'm writing is relevant to you. Check it out: http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...know-about-drum-programming.html#post10737014

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[rapucore]

I always program the drums.

If it's for a demo or an idea or something, I'll just program them and let them be. If it's serious, I'll edit all the velocities and the timing on each piece of the kit to make it as realistic as possible.

MIDI libraries aren't to my taste at all, not that I have fooled with them alot, I just prefer doing it yourself for maximum control.

 

[schismatic]

Not to hi-jack the thread, but what e-kit do you have? The "cheap and quick" part got me interested. I use the same approach, but went for a Drum Kat - worst musical purchase I've ever made, useless, unreliable piece of shit.

I purchased a Roland HD-1. Small, compact, relatively cheap for a good quality manufacturer. Kick drum pedals are a bit odd to get used to, but the main thing is that you can get them into the DAW via MIDI. I almost always quantise and humanise after that (except for fills which I like to leave a bit loose and more realistic).

 

[ATLA]

I never use the midi grooves. i can play a bit of drums myself so i usually just end up writing it quickly and guitar pro then importing the midi into my daw and editing the velocities from there.
I tried to use my midi keyboard once to write the drums but it just sounded really bad. I also have an alesis dm5 brain but very little room in my apartment for an electrick kit. one of these days ill save up and invest.