Psychopaths

What are your thought on this phenomenon?

Dear Norsemaiden,

Human Psychology Notes: Psychopathy Explained

The fundamental motivation of the so-called psychopathic personality is love of gold. By this is not meant necessarily tangible gold per se, but, rather, gold as the ultimate symbol of money, of the idea of money. Since psychopaths do not reason, instead being potential grandmasters of intuitive logic, they cannot grasp the Platonic idea of money, only intuitively understand it and frame that understanding in sensual terms. Experiments on incarcerated psychopaths/sociopaths have shown that pain, humiliation, and isolation have no lasting effect on their behaviour. The only thing that changes their behaviour is the threat of pecuniary penalty – suffering a “fine” of some kind. To the psychopath, gold is the only possible access to joy, which is the hope of love. They are denied love, but inside they are very joyful people! No one enjoys himself more in life than Dr. Hannibal Lecter!

In terms of reference to a healthy active human mind possessed by a controlling spirit of Reason/Agape that subsumes and regulates the expression of all lower forms of human-accessible love (eros, philios, storgos, charis, romanos, ecstatos), the psychopath is the perfect bestial infant. In practical terms infants are animals, possessing the spark of cognition that defines them as beings with the potential to develop into healthily active-minded human individuals, but lacking virtually all expression of that spark in rational terms, instead being dominated by their bestial Ego. This ego is capable of experiencing chiefly only three emotions: rage (at Mother’s overwhelming love and rules (charis)), fear (that Mother will die), and elation of object-possession (the tit, the toy, the lollipop, Mother’s passive smile (storgos)). The psychopath has become trapped, as if since birth or before, at this level of subhuman operation. The more effective ones learn to sublime their rage into an unctuous efficiency, and they are held in psychological place on that lower level by a fear of their own humanity so profound that it has become transparent, infusing and penetrating their entire bestial Ego (which nearly wholly dominates their entire mind) almost akin to “the Force” from the Star Wars films. It is like the Cosmological Constant, or Universal Gravitation, freezing them into a spacetime block universe condition of total enslavement to their undying, infinitely motivating Rage.

They use this Rage, which is the emotion which powers Logic - witness the fundamental motivating emotion of chess players, the drive to crush and destroy their opponent utterly on an arithmetical field of perfectly understood rules but endlessly fascinating novel permutations of damage, rape, and victory – to pursue their vastly enhanced feeling of elation of object-possession, where the object is infused with golden joy. This is, penultimately, associated with, but not necessarily derived from, their experience of mothering, of mother’s benevolent, passive, sunny smile, a yellow association which we find in storgos, the emotion of benign parenthood.

When an individual human is an infant and small child, then, once she develops an Ego separate from Mother, defining an incipient human relationship, she invariably perceives her mother as a kind of goddess-like witch, with magical powers to heal injuries with kisses, to protect baby from harm, to make the thundering Jehovah-father go away, to give suck, clean irritatingly filthy genitals, or to punish in unpredictable and potent ways. To relate to this the child develops a “mother image” inside her mind, as a kind of alternate Ego mask. As the healthy child grows, this personality is gradually diminished in relative influence over the mind, and the superstitions associated with it – a belief in magic, in gambling, a neurotic fear of “stepping on cracks” and similar, but outright psychotic sense-stimuli fetishism – are drained away into the gutters of the preconscious mind.

In many cases, however, and sometimes exceptionally powerfully in some tragic ones, the mother-image remains as a lurking “entity” within the mind, reaching its tentacles out during times of stress to “take over” the individual. People who respond to crises by spontaneously waxing hysterical, people who “can’t handle” certain words, concepts, and actions without going hysterical and sometimes even murderously vicious, are people who are infected with such an entity. A properly educated psychologist, after studying a given case for a suitable amount of time and in suitable detail and depth, can elicit this “witch mother” response reliably on command. Before doing so, however, the professional is well advised to take martial precautions!

The psychopath, then, is a human being consumed by self-reinforcing possession by a hypermasculine entity predicated on the above psychology – he is what we might call a “wild Terminator” personality, after the film series by director James Cameron featuring the exploits of human-shaped killing machines. But the thing to realise is this: in male psychopaths, at least, there is no man inside the body – the psychopath’s mind is intrinsically female!

The female mind is characteristically preconsciously-subjective, and consciously-predicative (i.e. subject = “apple;” predicate = “red”). It’s associate primary emotion is envy – of the cognitive conscious advantage had by the stereotypical male mind, which inverts that female’s subject/predicate terms. The psychopath perfectly fits this bill of instinctive activity, evincing a serpentine seductiveness and oily charm typical to somewhat relatively lesser degrees of sophistication in the stereotypical homosexual conman. What has happened, in internal relational terms, is the psychopath’s envious preconsciousness as psychically incarnated into the bestial Ego, has encountered the Witch Mother and found itself staring into a mirror of its own hideousness. Because the psychopath is isolated from all humanity and so lives in an essentially solipsistic universe, this hideousness is a reflection of infinite fascination. The purest monster marvels and lusts after her own reflection. Since, however, progress toward goals is impossible without relationship, this reflection metamorphoses into an image of “gold made flesh.” The way to possess this Object, in the form of accumulation of multiple stepping-stone objects (consumables), is through the supreme development of task-oriented, Logic/Rage. In essence, the desired reflection imprisons the female preconsciousness behind a screen that is perfectly congruous with the world of sense-stimuli. Emotion (Rage) and conceptualisation (Logic) redefine the psychopath’s bestial Ego in terms of the sense-perceived geometry of his flesh, and thus he defines himself as male.

Psychopaths vary in their specific desires, but all are fundamentally attempting to rape and torture the alienated image of themselves within their minds in order to gain access to joy as the hope of some incomprehensible, unrecognized, and mystical “love” which becomes a conceptually hollow word, but the resonance of their humanity remains as a perfect yellow light within that they will, and do, do anything to attain. All else in the world is not disregarded, it is simply a candy store to smash and loot, with the Keystone Kops always in pursuit! What a wonderful world it truly is for such a person, for he lives in the ultimate Video Game. The hope of joy, in turn, is forever with him as he moves quietly toward his goals.

The psychopath commits sexual torture and other apparent cruelties not out of malice – the evil desire to, in its worst sense, wound a human mind in order to violate and invert Agape – but out of a desire to masturbate. A psychopath cannot truly fuck/rape (philios), cannot make love (storgos), cannot love other men or God (agape), cannot experience the bliss of true marriage (romanos). His one true love is to endlessly trip on wondrous novelty (ecstatos) which gold/yellow/sunshine/buttercups represent as a substitute for the perfect storgos of benign parental love imbuing his mind. He is alone in the world, and to him that’s just gravy; his only relationship is with that world itself. A woman as targeted victim of his pseudosadistic depredations is not herself being tortured, it is he torturing the image of the witch-mother as she is incarnated in aesthetically pleasing terms, and she loves it. He is perfectly insincere, so nothing the victim says will have any communicative effect on him, because he knows that “she” is in fact enjoying the hell out of the experience. The perfect liar cannot conceive of the concept of Truth, only pursue gold.

The question of the origin of psychopathy remains unanswered, but the possibility of “recovering” them remains open. They are human, but they are fantastically specialised humans. Their primal purpose was probably some kind of tribal torture-master. In a small community, the psychopath would have little opportunity to prey on his fellows in a way that wouldn’t cut his own throat by being outcast, killed, or otherwise deprived of material status. He would turn his proclivities on the outside world, to animals and such, and, when confronted with a hostile alien tribe, he in that situation would make the ideal “games player” who could advise the war-chief of the best strategies, and who could be left to execute or interrogate prisoners. Such a person’s reputation would become valuable as something to scare enemies with; indeed, all soldiers cultivate the psychopathic personality to some degree or other, in their uniforms and carriage if not their minds. He would also make a good high priest, given the opportunity to engage in rituals like Mithraic bull sacrifice, “helping” initiates castrate themselves in ecstatic worship of the insane Great Goddess, ritualised proto-sado-masochistic rape, Aztec sacrifice, cannibalism, and so forth.

Curing a psychopath would, in principle, require an extensively prepared and vastly skilled “exorcism” in order to stripmine away the various masks down to the level of the hypermasculinised bestial Ego and the Witch Mother opposite it. The immediate goal is not to transform the individual into a fully-functioning healthy individual operating on the level of Reason/Agape as such, but, rather, to effect a polarity switch in the directionality of concern. The spark of human free will would have to be stirred and aroused and, being just a spark, and without self-consciousness, just “ticked” from a positive polarity (Rage/Logic -> Joy/Gold) to a negative one (Joy/Gold -> Rage/Logic). In effect, the point of attack is to kick in the hypermasculine Ego’s slavering jaws through a specific, carefully calculated professionally-orchestrated infiltration of a shadow of Agape. This shadow blots out the shine of the gold like clouds obscuring the sun, and to defend himself the psychopathic personality chooses to switch sides and reidentify with the Witch Mother, in opposition to the bestial Ego. Note that this does not lift him up into the lofty realms of loving ordinary humans dwell within.

What it does is change his conception of how to get gold, of what is gold. Identifying with the hated mother-image, and thus operating back in terms of a truthful self-identity (in this case, again, non-conceptual, merely oriented by emotion) of himself as preconscious subjective (i.e. with a female mind), he generates an internal irony between her[/] female mind and her male body/brain, and that irony is the emotional substrate upon which the shadow of Agape is perpetually subconsciously (i.e. the conscious mind operating without noticing what the preconscious is doing – homosexuals, transsexuals, etc. are largely products of becoming trapped to various degrees in the subconscious; the psychopath is merely the master of this entrapment, to the point where all confusion has retreated into the very air).

What results is someone who is no longer a psychopath, but a neuropath. Whereas the psychopath’s primary emotion of envy was translated into a simulated sense of perfectly sublimed male shame – that “universal gravitation” effect aforementioned – that gravitation is suddenly turned into anti-gravity, and the natural primary female emotion of guilt becomes its replacement. Because of her nature, the neuropath is consumed with paranoia, eyes bugging out, movements become extremely careful, gentleness is suddenly understood as a useful and intuitively metaphorical method of acquiring gold, and the gold itself is defined not in terms of destroying/sexually torturing/mutilating blissfully pulchritudinous mother-image avatars, or insults to aesthetic pleasure (Hannibal, again), or the accumulation of force-projection ability (in common parlance, “power”), or money per se (the fundamental model of money is “penis->rape = submission”). Instead, she is possessed by an intensely guilty mothering-personality defined by an internally sado-masochistically restrained bestial charis ("divine sexual Mother-Love") that has no use for human interaction but is consumed with terrifically restrained lust to fulfill her maternal urges to elicit “smiles” (gold – which the psychopathic infant consumed from his mother) from lower forms of life: children, cats, plants, and so forth. A natural hermit, such a person might well become a Druid or something similar, indifferent to conventional morality but entranced with working toward a joy within that permeates her universe like rain upon the pine-thick mountainside.

“For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”
--1 Timothy 6:10


Narziss
 
There seems to be truth in that but I'm not sure how much. Rather pseudo scientific and overly Freudian, but interesting. Who wrote it? Did you?
 
There seems to be truth in that but I'm not sure how much. Rather pseudo scientific and overly Freudian, but interesting. Who wrote it? Did you?

Dear Norsemaiden,

Yes, I wrote it. It's not Freudian or Marxian but beyond both, "beyond psychoanalysis" to so speak, making use of a Classically Humanist foundation for economics, psychology, and metaphysics, tempered and informed by specific readings and my own experimentation and experience.

The key is in working through the entire idea, without letting certain words slip into ambiguity. I speak and write very precisely and I can tell if someone is relatively cognitively retarded by a simple but subconsciously telling absence of a comma in the right place. Psychopaths and neuropaths were a tricky one, but ultimately easy to understand once one has reached the right perspective and discovered the psychological idea they embody.

What will make a nice little project for sometime in the near future, as per your warning regarding the estimated 4% of the population who are psychopaths, chiefly male (and perhaps another 4% as neuropaths, chiefly female), is to develop some kind of quick, unobstrusive, but definitive test for them that a person can give without suffering notice by the subject to be tested. That too, should prove staggeringly simple, once it is understood, but until then I have no concrete hypotheses or speculations. If and when I come up with it, I will test it and, if it works, I will publish it here so that you can test it and prove for yourself the power of the above discovered principle of psychoneuropathy.

I have a day or two free before my Christmas vacation, so if you have any questions about it feel free to ask them and I'll work to respond smartly.
 
It was a very well thought out assessment that you made Naziss. I would guess you have training in psychology, or perhaps psychiatry? (I have a degree in psychology myself, but one would be surprised at this given my tendency to lack of tact and subtlty:oops: ).

It is possible you could construct a personality test for assessing psychopaths I suppose, but they are dishonest (as you know) and won't answer truthfully. Lie detectors are bound to be useless on such people, as they don't experience stress when lying - unless perhaps they feel trapped and can't think of a response that sounds at all convincing.

There is this "ten minute test" for psychopaths:
BBC NEWS | Health | Ten minute test could spot killers

This was designed for the serial killing type, but would it also work on the others, who never end up committing violent crime, do you think?
 
I think there's something to the argument that our society is especially congenial to psycho/sociopaths. Post-industrial capitalism and liberal democracy favor a certain personality profile - charismatic, self-absorbed, ambitious, a little unscrupulous - a personality profile that looks a lot like the sociopathic personality.
 
I think there's something to the argument that our society is especially congenial to psycho/sociopaths. Post-industrial capitalism and liberal democracy favor a certain personality profile - charismatic, self-absorbed, ambitious, a little unscrupulous - a personality profile that looks a lot like the sociopathic personality.

Chicken and the egg question: Is it the overabundance of psychopaths in powerful postions that is an important factor initiating a decay of civilisation, or is it the general decay of civilisation that facililtates the rise of the psychopath into influential positions?



The Impact Of Social Decline Upon Achievement
by Philip Atkinson
Achievement is the success of an understanding in meeting its ambition so its value must reflect the nature of that understanding. If the understanding is selfish then its success must be by the exploitation of others, enabled by lies, to win easy private gain, and will not be a benefit but a liability to the community, like the pursuit of profit.

It is only if the understanding is unselfish, so its success must be based upon self-sacrifice and reverence for truth, that its achievement will be a benefit to the community.

Hence a community made up of unselfish citizens will realise increasing benefits, providing increasing wealth and knowledge, whereas a community made up of mainly selfish citizens must languish into increasing impotence and delusion.

The impact of decline upon achievement
 
I imagine the conditions arise simultaneously - the one proven long-term defense against sociopathic leadership is an aristocratic oligarchy. A caste system if you will. The problem is that aristocracies have something of built in shelf life, because the methods necessary to maintain them tend to eventually (though not for many generations) devolve into dysgenic patterns of inbreeding, weakening the aristocracy and opening the doors to ambitious sociopaths - who inevitably upon grasping the reigns of power make alterations in the fabric of society that favor others like them.
 
Dear Norsemaiden,

Pardon my belated reply.

I think the test you linked to could be fooled without much effort on a psychopath's part. He merely has to learn randomised timing in order to fit into the statistical average.

My hypothesised test is this: Give a possible psychopath a cat. Cats are natural psychopaths, complete solipsists who stand aloof and will eat their owner as soon as she dies. Cats have a "deadness" to their eyes unlike those natural neuropaths, dogs; they merely lack the human logical refinement that would make them into a true menace.

I hypothesise that a psychopath will be unable to connect emotionally to a cat, and, thus, be unable to elicit sufficiently friendly responses from it. Dogs respond to fairly superficial stimuli, but cats are deeper, they have their own agenda. As is said, "You can't kid a kidder" - thus, I figure a cat would be the best test.

We could even train a special psycho-detector cat. If the cat hisses at him, lock him up!

Narziss, rc
s t o r m f r o n t.org/forum/showthread.php?p=3557925#post3557925
 
A question i have after reading this whole thread:

What is the distinction between psychopathic behaviour and narcissistic personality disorder(npd)?

That's a good question. It looks like there is a strong degree of correlation between psychopaths and narcissitic personality disorder.


amoral/conscienceless
authoritarian
care only about appearances
contemptuous
critical of others
cruel
disappointing gift-givers
don't recognize own feelings
envious and competitive
feel entitled
flirtatious or seductive
grandiose
hard to have a good time with
hate to live alone
hyper-sensitive to criticism
impulsive
lack sense of humor
naive
passive
pessimistic
religious
secretive
self-contradictory
stingy
strange work habits
unusual eating habits
weird sense of time
Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) : Traits discussed

The most telling thing that narcissists do is contradict themselves. They will do this virtually in the same sentence, without even stopping to take a breath. It can be trivial (e.g., about what they want for lunch) or it can be serious (e.g., about whether or not they love you). When you ask them which one they mean, they'll deny ever saying the first one, though it may literally have been only seconds since they said it -- really, how could you think they'd ever have said that?

It looks like those with narcissistic personality disorder form a sub-set of psychopaths, but some psychopaths don't particularly behave like those with NPD. The more narcissistic ones seem likely to be less cunning at deceiving people because they are not as good at acting the part of being well balanced.
 
I didn't read of the entirity of the thread, but I completly agree with some of the bare-statements. Pychopaths exists, dominate, and prey on the weak. Not in the sense that they kill, stalk, or physically maim (though that does happen to), but they maim the world in general by putting everyone and crushing everyone in their way (to some extent) to put themselves ahead.

According to quite a few docters I have a large quality of psychopath traits. What keeps me from being one is the ability to feel some sort of compassion to a few individuals who inhabit my life. It's quite a scary thought being there, but as I've seen, it's entirely possible.

One of my friends per say, is a complete psychopath. The only reason I'm still around in his life is because I can provide him with both a sense of security (a friendship of sorts) and a sense of usefulness (I do music with him). But since he has been (or I thought he has been) my best friend since I had friends, I have had plently of oppurtunity to study psychopaths (other then myself, which though I am not one, I can use many of my traits as study methods) and I have found it particularly interessting on how ingenius they find themselves, and how ingenius they are. Manouvering through social ladders like snakes, praying and using what they need, and chucking away a withered carcass (of course completly metaphorical) of what remains of them after their uses have been fufilled.
 
Years ago I had a job interview and some testing and to be honest, I wasn't answering honestly as much I feed gave them what they wanted to see.