QUEENSRŸCHE - Condition Hüman

[Everonn]

But that's the thing, Queensryche were never JUST a metal band. Going all the way back to Warning they were stretching the boundaries of metal by experimenting, its the reason they are credited as being one of the forefathers of the prog metal scene. What they are doing on the previous album and this song is just by the numbers metal.

Yes! The band was exceptional when their song writing quality was beyond their peers, and as it happens their song writing was great when they were writing heavier material. They were never great because they were heavier.

So they're borrowing (rehashing, really) some heavier elements from their earlier work, and hoping by the transitive property of equality that makes the song writing superb. It doesn't.

Some of the material on the previous record was more interesting than this track. Not QR caliber great, but interesting. This, being the first taste being offered, doesn't give me hope they're moving in the write direction with regards to song writing quality.


- Chris

 

[KingsGene]

I dig this. FAR better production than the last disc, which was virtually unlistenable for me.

This.

 

[Exploding Ned]

Quote:
I give them credit, as they're clearly trying to get back to their roots. It sounds like they wound up with something that sounds like a cross between The Warning and Hear in the New Frontier. Unfortunately, the songwriting quality and intensity is much more than latter than the former.

Um, yeah, respectfully disagree here. It has elements of their earlier albums, but I think they are just trying to be METAL again, and they are achieving that. I hear nothing in this song that harkens to HitNF whatsoever. It has guitars, it has bass, it has drums.... Comparison ended.

Agreed. It is getting back to more metal, which I would think even the saddest armchair quarterback could appreciate. No, it isn't the most amazing thing they've ever produced, but I'm thankful it is improved over their boring days at the end of the wacko singer's run.

 

[General Zod]

So when I judge a band I definitely compare them to other bands in the same age group.......and yes, for a bunch of old guys they sound damn good.

If they're still around at 70, will you decide whether or not to listen to their music based on a comparison against other 70 year old musicians? That's not intended of sarcastic. I'm curious how far you would extend that train of thought.

Bands like Maiden, Priest, Fates Warning: None of those bands have been able to rekindle the magic they had with their early CDs.

I don't expect any record to be Rage for Order or Number of the Beast. Those were genre-defining records and the genre has long since been defined. At the same, I won't award points based on recognizable logos. I don't care if the album art features Eddie or the TriRyche. The only questions I feel compelled to answer in my mind are:

• Is it good?
• Would I reach for it again?

In this case the answers for me are "It's OK" and "No". The musicianship is average, the songwriting is average, and the singer (who dominates the mix) is a Tate clone. That's not intended as an insult. Cloning Tate requires an incredible amount of talent. However, he doesn't bring anything to the table that I didn't grow up on in its original and superior form. Again, I'm not trying to take shots at Todd, it's merely a honest observation.

I just want a solid Hard Rock/Lite Metal Disc with Great vocals and solid playing.

I want something more than "solid". My music collection features a lot of greatness. My annual Top 50 list is filled with varying degrees of excellence. I'm just not interested in "solid" at this point. There's just too much music and too little time.

 

[Formerly known as Chris F5]

+1.

I don't think we'll see them reach the god-like levels of the 80s unless DeGarmo decides to rejoin the band. It's pretty obvious that while the whole band was great (and is again, with Todd), DeGarmo was the standout songwriter. Without him, the *overall* quality of the songs will never reach the classic heights. Individual songs might, but they lost their best/primary songwriter, IMO...that changes things.

Craig

Except DeGarmo was part of the snoozefest of HEAR......and was part of the songwriting on Tribe


So the DeGarmo argument is invalid

 

[TheLongshot]

Zod,

In general, bands in the position where Ryche is right now is mostly going to play things conservative and play to their fans. It would be a very difficult for them to blaze a new trail, particularly when the main people who defined the direction of the band for so many years are now gone. To be honest, I don't see a lot of options for them otherwise if they want to keep playing as Queensryche, particularly when their current core fanbase probably just wants them to throw back to Rage.

That being said, I agree with you that it is hard to waste cycles on them when there are better bands out there. To be honest, I'm kinda impressed that they got to the level of solid music and I'm happy they've been able to move forward, but I don't feel any incentive to buy an album.

 

[General Zod]

Zod,

In general, bands in the position where Ryche is right now is mostly going to play things conservative and play to their fans. It would be a very difficult for them to blaze a new trail, particularly when the main people who defined the direction of the band for so many years are now gone. To be honest, I don't see a lot of options for them otherwise if they want to keep playing as Queensryche, particularly when their current core fanbase probably just wants them to throw back to Rage.

That being said, I agree with you that it is hard to waste cycles on them when there are better bands out there. To be honest, I'm kinda impressed that they got to the level of solid music and I'm happy they've been able to move forward, but I don't feel any incentive to buy an album.

I would agree with all of this.

 

[DustyV]

If they're still around at 70, will you decide whether or not to listen to their music based on a comparison against other 70 year old musicians? That's not intended of sarcastic. I'm curious how far you would extend that train of thought.

Well, I don't worry about the 70 thing, as it's never going to happen, BUT I have noticed that creativity from metal bands does fade as they get older....I see it time and time again from countless bands. I just accept it as the norm these days.

Would I reach for it again?[/LIST]In this case the answers for me are "It's OK" and "No". The musicianship is average, the songwriting is average, and the singer (who dominates the mix) is a Tate clone. That's not intended as an insult. Cloning Tate requires an incredible amount of talent. However, he doesn't bring anything to the table that I didn't grow up on in its original and superior form. Again, I'm not trying to take shots at Todd, it's merely a honest observation.

Actually, I don't hear the exact Tate Clone that some other people hear. I think Todd has a distinctive voice, and Tate's voice was more higher pitched, and he sang in a higher octave than Todd does.

Listen to a song on Rage, Warning and Empire and then listen to Todd and you can DEFINITELY tell the difference. Even so, I'm one that loves that style of singing, and I welcome more of it! Tate had a distinctive voice that no singer has or will ever be able to emulate. That's not a knock on Todd. I think Todd is making an effort not to sound "exactly" like Tate.

I just want a great singer with a great voice and that's what Todd brings. Even if he does sound like Tate, it doesn't matter because Tate doesn't sing like that anymore and of course many of us hunger for that style of singing...So someone has to pick up the Tab.

Again, we can't judge anything by 1 song.....When Mindcrime came out, the first sing I heard from it was "The Needle Lies" and I hated it...I kept saying, "worst song ever!" "plain and boring", but I love Operation Mindcrime as a whole. Although I still don't care for The Needle Lies.

 

[MelbCro]

Zod,

In general, bands in the position where Ryche is right now is mostly going to play things conservative and play to their fans. It would be a very difficult for them to blaze a new trail, particularly when the main people who defined the direction of the band for so many years are now gone. To be honest, I don't see a lot of options for them otherwise if they want to keep playing as Queensryche, particularly when their current core fanbase probably just wants them to throw back to Rage.

That being said, I agree with you that it is hard to waste cycles on them when there are better bands out there. To be honest, I'm kinda impressed that they got to the level of solid music and I'm happy they've been able to move forward, but I don't feel any incentive to buy an album.

Rush, Fates Warning, Iron maiden, Marillion don't play it safe, Whether or not you like their current music, there is nothing safe about it.

 

[MelbCro]

Again, we can't judge anything by 1 song.....When Mindcrime came out, the first sing I heard from it was "The Needle Lies" and I hated it...I kept saying, "worst song ever!" "plain and boring", but I love Operation Mindcrime as a whole. Although I still don't care for The Needle Lies.

That not really relevant though, we are discussing a song not an album. I've heard the song a few times now and I just think its bad. You said earlier that if this was just another melodic rock band that people would be loving it. That's an unfair comment to make, most people either like something or they don't. Just assuming its because of some kind of angst against the band is way off the mark.

 

[TheLongshot]

Rush, Fates Warning, Iron maiden, Marillion don't play it safe, Whether or not you like their current music, there is nothing safe about it.

Difference being the prime members of the band are still intact. I suspect if you remove both Steve Harris and Bruce Dickinson from Iron Maiden, that probably would be closer to the situation we have with Queensryche. (Hell, switching out Dickinson with Bailey didn't exactly go over huge.)

 

[DustyV]

That not really relevant though, we are discussing a song not an album. I've heard the song a few times now and I just think its bad. You said earlier that if this was just another melodic rock band that people would be loving it. That's an unfair comment to make, most people either like something or they don't. Just assuming its because of some kind of angst against the band is way off the mark.

What I mean by that is because it's "Queensryche", the standards are automatically raised up significantly. It it were any other band, the standards wouldn't be that high. In regards to my one song comment. When I heard the bit of guitar solo in the song, I was like, "wow, this sounds like something off "The Warning", so it's definitely a step in the right direction. It still sounds 100% better than Tate's crap he's released on his own.

 

[Sir Exar Kun]

Rush, Fates Warning, Iron maiden, Marillion don't play it safe, Whether or not you like their current music, there is nothing safe about it.

Absolutely these bands are playing it "safe". Their modern era albums all have very similar vibes to each other, with nothing really straying far from their defined (successful) formulas.

No, they didn't just up and go mainstream, but they definitely have stayed in their comfort zones from a songwriting perspective.

 

[General Zod]

Well, I don't worry about the 70 thing, as it's never going to happen, BUT I have noticed that creativity from metal bands does fade as they get older....I see it time and time again from countless bands. I just accept it as the norm these days.

I agree the collective creativity of bands from the 80s has faded. I believe where we differ is, you seem to be viewing their individual works only within the context of their peers, whereas I'm viewing it within the context of the current musical landscape (unless I misunderstood).

Actually, I don't hear the exact Tate Clone that some other people hear. I think Todd has a distinctive voice, and Tate's voice was more higher pitched, and he sang in a higher octave than Todd does.

Listen to a song on Rage, Warning and Empire and then listen to Todd and you can DEFINITELY tell the difference. Even so, I'm one that loves that style of singing, and I welcome more of it! Tate had a distinctive voice that no singer has or will ever be able to emulate. That's not a knock on Todd. I think Todd is making an effort not to sound "exactly" like Tate.

Geoff was 27 and 31 when he recorded those records. Todd is now 41. To my ear, Todd's voice merely sounds as Geoff's would have at 41.

I just want a great singer with a great voice and that's what Todd brings. Even if he does sound like Tate, it doesn't matter because Tate doesn't sing like that anymore and of course many of us hunger for that style of singing...So someone has to pick up the Tab.

That's fair. For me, it simply comes off sounding like the best thing they've done since Promised Land (which is the lowest of bars). I just don't have the energy to spend listening cycles with QR's 6th best record (especially when the difference between 5 and 6 is dramatic).

Again, we can't judge anything by 1 song.....When Mindcrime came out, the first sing I heard from it was "The Needle Lies" and I hated it...I kept saying, "worst song ever!" "plain and boring", but I love Operation Mindcrime as a whole.

While it's fair to say it's only one song, it's also 26 years and 9 records of awful music. This band no longer gets the benefit of the doubt from me. If anything, they should be locked up for all the terrible things they've done to "benefit of the doubt".

Although I still don't care for The Needle Lies.

That's just madness.

 

[edgeofthorns]

I think it sounds like a band that's trying to please it's long time fans, after dragging them through the mud for a decade. I think the song sounds good.

~Brian~

 

[Bear]

Geoff was 27 and 31 when he recorded those records. Todd is now 41. To my ear, Todd's voice merely sounds as Geoff's would have at 41.

Well are you taking into account that Todd has not always been a lead vocalist? He was a drummer for many years not using his voice in that capacity, so he should by all accounts be able to sing into his 50's

Bear

 

[General Zod]

Well are you taking into account that Todd has not always been a lead vocalist? He was a drummer for many years not using his voice in that capacity, so he should by all accounts be able to sing into his 50's

I actually find that surprising. I would have guessed he had been singing his whole life. As I said, I'm not knocking the guy's ability. I think tate is the greatest vocalist of all-time. So anyone who can approximate what he does, clearly has talent.

 

[TwizstedJesus]

Absolutely these bands are playing it "safe". Their modern era albums all have very similar vibes to each other, with nothing really straying far from their defined (successful) formulas.

No, they didn't just up and go mainstream, but they definitely have stayed in their comfort zones from a songwriting perspective.

Fates Warning are by no way playing it safe. They are nothing near what they were in their prime sound-wise. You compare Perfect Symmetry to Darkness in a Different Light and it isn't even close! Matheos has been pushing boundries for 25 years.

 

[Hammerlock]

Absolutely these bands are playing it "safe". Their modern era albums all have very similar vibes to each other, with nothing really straying far from their defined (successful) formulas.

No, they didn't just up and go mainstream, but they definitely have stayed in their comfort zones from a songwriting perspective.

I really have to disagree on the Maiden. The proggy aspect that their songs have taken since "Brave New World" is a big left turn for them after 20 years of just being a straight metal band. Doing a double album like "The Book of Souls" with an 18 minute epic (and two other 10+ minute songs) is quite a risk to take at this stage in their careers. Compare "Starblind" with "Aces High" and tell me you can't hear the difference in the leads. IMO they've achieved an almost unprecedented renaissance with these post-reunion albums as far as songwriting and taking chances when most bands from that era are barely even releasing new material, much less doing anything that would challenge them.

 

[Sir Exar Kun]

Fates Warning are by no way playing it safe. They are nothing near what they were in their prime sound-wise. You compare Perfect Symmetry to Darkness in a Different Light and it isn't even close! Matheos has been pushing boundries for 25 years.

You're trying to compare a 25 year gap as your basis for defining "safe", and that's not what I am talking about..... Album to album, they have not changed SIGNIFICANTLY since the Arch / Alder change, with "No Exit" serving as a mid-point. There has definitely been evolution over that time period, but it's been a gradual one.... Symmetry morphed to Parallels, Parallels and Inside Out were virtually the same album, APSOG was a bit of a departure into a darker sound, Disconnected took the APSOG theme and added a bit of OSI/modern element, whereas X brought them back a little more into the Parallels style, and Darkness merely carried on from there.

My point in saying they played it "safe" is that they didn't release an album that was a dramatic departure from what came before it, or from other material Matheos had been working through (OSI, Arch/Matheos etc). Sonically, they are all fairly tightly knit.

Absolutely they have changed over great periods of time, but each album segues into the next, and a fan of one is more than likely to enjoy the album before or after.

When I think of a band NOT playing it safe, I think of Opeth going into their modern phase, or Pain of Salvation doing whatever the hell they are doing now.... A band that turns their formula on the head, surprising and possibly alienating many of their fans in the process.

Fates writing has never been "safe" in the sense that it would capture mass mainstream interest, or not challenge the listener in some way. Music can be challenging and safe at the same time. I actually thought this last week when listening to the latest Leprous album. It's technically complex, it's unlike anybody else I hear, but the last couple albums have felt "safe" in the sense that I know where each song is going before it even gets there without having heard it. They have crafted a certain formula that they are "safely" following, whereas if you listen to "Bilateral" that album is all over the freakin' place.....

I find the other bands above to be the same "safe". They aren't reinventing their wheel, they are merely evolving gradually over time from one album to the next.

I LIKE "safe" in most cases.

As for Maiden, I can't comment yet on the new album, as I haven't heard a single note from it. In theory, I agree that (based on song length) this may NOT be the "safe" I am talking about at all. I HOPE it's not. If they simply take the same formula from "Final Frontier" and crank up the song lengths, this will be a snooze fest.