Ray Alder vs John Arch
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edgeofthorns
24 Hours Ago...
APSOG was my first exposure to FW, so I lean more toward the Alder era. With that said, I've warmed up to the Arch era stuff as well over the years.
~Brian~
~Brian~
FatesFan
Member
- Dec 18, 2004
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My first intro to FW was the very first album the year it was released. I was hooked on FW and Arch from day 1. When I found out they had a new guy coming on vocals for No Exit I was not a happy young man. I don't handle change well in my bands and especially if it involves a singer and a monster sing like Arch at that. It's been much to long ago to recall my initial impressions of my first listen of No Exit but let's just say that I loved what Ray brought to the table and I loved the direction the band was going in. For me it is impossible to say which singer I prefer as it would be like someone asking you to choose you favorite kid. I love them both and have an appreciation for their differences. I wonder if FW would have had the career they have had if John had stayed? That is not a Knock on John as I just believe Johns style of vocal is not as easily acceptable as Rays to the ear. Johns phrasing and inflections are candy to my ears but I can see how it could be considered not as accessible as Rays. Just listen to the John Arch/ Dream Theater Demos. I think the guy sounded amazing on them but there is no question in my mind that DT would not be where they are today with Arch on the mic. Again, not a knock as he is one of my favorites of all time. But as we all know, we listen to music here that is not widely listened to as it's not radio friendly, dumbed down, 3.5 minute long type songs. Especially the prog based stuff. Ray is a monster in his own right. Even thought he may not have the pipes of old, he has learned to work with what he has and he delivers in spades every time he records. You really can't compare the two as they are different animals but without a doubt they are both top drawer vocalists. One just happens to sing in a manner in which I feel limits his appeal to a smaller select audience.
Pellaz
Tigron of Immanion
Dominick_7
Member
No Exit was my first real exposure to Fates Warning as well. Loved No Exit and Ray's high ranged vocals on it. Later heard Arch and thought he was great. I like them both but since Ray no longer sings like that, I go with Arch.
ConnieOH
Metal Lover in Ohio
My first exposure to FW was also No Exit and it's still my favorite album of theirs. It wasn't until a few years ago that I even heard the Arch material, and I definitely prefer Alder's voice, even outside of FW. Just personal preference.
Wow...what a topic...and there really is no perfect answer to this...Fates is truly one of those band that has been able to have multiple eras that, somehow, maintain the integrity of the band while creating multiple personas. I would liken it to Metal Church, Savatage...and...who else?
Anyway, my first exposure to FW was on Charlie Kendall's Metal Shop when I heard Fata Morgana on Fresh Metal. The very next day, I went and bought Awaken The Guardian. Now...I suppose it depends on your age and your exposure to various genres of metal, but...I think you have to admit that Awaken The Guardian is something truly unique, powerful, and different. Musically, structurally, vocally...it's all a very odd melange. After absorbing Awaken, I went backwards through the discog. Spectre was the launching point for their brand of intricate prog, equally eccentric and complex, although a bit raw. Brocken revealed their Maiden-worshipping roots, but also showcased Arch's incredible abilities and eccentric melody lines. Wow!
I remember being at my local record store and looking at the new release of No Exit in awe, having no idea that FW had release a new one. The manager, who knew me well, came walking by me in the aisle and casually mentioned in passing, "you know they have a new singer, right?" That totally burst my bubble and pissed me off, but didn't prevent me from buying it. Let's face it...No Exit was painfully raw and Van Halen-esque lazy in its totality (compared to their previous efforts), but it did possess a new vision and hunger. Symmetry dove into tech-prog, Parallels solidified their new sound, Inside Out showcased their desire to be the next Rush...and so it goes...
Bottom line...Arch is the man...Ray was the dog-whistle-man for a while, then mellowed and tried to become a cottage-industry for a while. Both guys are completely cool motherfuckers. I have shaken hands with John, and I have had drinks with Ray...you couldn't ask for two nicer dudes to speak with (Matheos is another story).
But...I will take Arch on any day...simply for forging a new era in progressive metal that was eccentric, melodic, and yet heavy. Ray might have progressed the band into the modern age, but a lot of prog metal wouldn't have happened without FW and John Arch.
Anyway, my first exposure to FW was on Charlie Kendall's Metal Shop when I heard Fata Morgana on Fresh Metal. The very next day, I went and bought Awaken The Guardian. Now...I suppose it depends on your age and your exposure to various genres of metal, but...I think you have to admit that Awaken The Guardian is something truly unique, powerful, and different. Musically, structurally, vocally...it's all a very odd melange. After absorbing Awaken, I went backwards through the discog. Spectre was the launching point for their brand of intricate prog, equally eccentric and complex, although a bit raw. Brocken revealed their Maiden-worshipping roots, but also showcased Arch's incredible abilities and eccentric melody lines. Wow!
I remember being at my local record store and looking at the new release of No Exit in awe, having no idea that FW had release a new one. The manager, who knew me well, came walking by me in the aisle and casually mentioned in passing, "you know they have a new singer, right?" That totally burst my bubble and pissed me off, but didn't prevent me from buying it. Let's face it...No Exit was painfully raw and Van Halen-esque lazy in its totality (compared to their previous efforts), but it did possess a new vision and hunger. Symmetry dove into tech-prog, Parallels solidified their new sound, Inside Out showcased their desire to be the next Rush...and so it goes...
Bottom line...Arch is the man...Ray was the dog-whistle-man for a while, then mellowed and tried to become a cottage-industry for a while. Both guys are completely cool motherfuckers. I have shaken hands with John, and I have had drinks with Ray...you couldn't ask for two nicer dudes to speak with (Matheos is another story).
But...I will take Arch on any day...simply for forging a new era in progressive metal that was eccentric, melodic, and yet heavy. Ray might have progressed the band into the modern age, but a lot of prog metal wouldn't have happened without FW and John Arch.
DrkLrdViper666
Frontman/Vocalist/Singer
For me this:
Incidentally, I first heard & purchased "Night On Brocken" @ the Turtles record
store in chamblee plaza (here in dekalb county, Ga.) in 1984 on vinyl!
I LOVED John Arch's voice & vocals from the first moment I heard the first song "Buried Alive" to the last, the title track "Night On Brocken"!
What a BADASS, KILLER singer! Combining the best elements of Queensryche's Geoff Tate & Iron Maiden's Bruce Dickinson!
I was totally hooked! And I still am!
Btw, I finally just completed my John Arch Era Fates Warning collection on Cd!
Now, I still need to get the OTHER re-release of "Awaken The Guardian" w/ the rare live footage on dvd!
JOHN ARCH RULES!
LONG LIVE THE OLD SCHOOL!
Incidentally, I first heard & purchased "Night On Brocken" @ the Turtles record
store in chamblee plaza (here in dekalb county, Ga.) in 1984 on vinyl!
I LOVED John Arch's voice & vocals from the first moment I heard the first song "Buried Alive" to the last, the title track "Night On Brocken"!
What a BADASS, KILLER singer! Combining the best elements of Queensryche's Geoff Tate & Iron Maiden's Bruce Dickinson!
I was totally hooked! And I still am!
Btw, I finally just completed my John Arch Era Fates Warning collection on Cd!
Now, I still need to get the OTHER re-release of "Awaken The Guardian" w/ the rare live footage on dvd! JOHN ARCH RULES!
LONG LIVE THE OLD SCHOOL!
euleria
the last in line
I have a hard time separating the question comparing these two fine vocalists from the question of which era FW one prefers. There are too many variables to claim that the second question is equivalent to the first.
For example, I have a strong preference for Ray's recent work (APSOG onward, Engine, Redemption) over his "middle" FW era (Parallels/PS/IO), even though I suspect his *singing* is better on those earlier albums.
I can't compare John and Ray head-to-head as singers without being influenced by everything else (lyrics, songwriting, sound engineering). It will be interesting to see what the new Arch/Matheos project comes up with. It sounds as if John's voice hasn't changed over the years; certainly Jim's songwriting has.
I just hope Jim hasn't shelved Fates Warning for good with this move.
For example, I have a strong preference for Ray's recent work (APSOG onward, Engine, Redemption) over his "middle" FW era (Parallels/PS/IO), even though I suspect his *singing* is better on those earlier albums.
I can't compare John and Ray head-to-head as singers without being influenced by everything else (lyrics, songwriting, sound engineering). It will be interesting to see what the new Arch/Matheos project comes up with. It sounds as if John's voice hasn't changed over the years; certainly Jim's songwriting has.
I just hope Jim hasn't shelved Fates Warning for good with this move.
Bryant
Mr. Sleepy
That is VERY true and well put. I used to be a HUGE Metal Church fan and still consider Mike Howe one of the greatest metal singers ever. Having said that, how could you not love David Wayne ? His voice was also incredible. FW is no different. They were blessed with two incredible vocalists. We all have our preferences, but I think it is safe to say Fates Warning had a killer singer throughout their history.
Bryant
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
Btw, I finally just completed my John Arch Era Fates Warning collection on Cd!
JOHN ARCH RULES!
LONG LIVE THE OLD SCHOOL!
It's a cool release, but be warned that the footage is pretty raw.
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