Realistic Drum velocities

[JeffEstrada]

I was playing around with this and was wondering how a real drummer would hit the kick at different velocities. I can play drums but im no where near good to play really fast double kick beats. So I don't know a whole lot about the drummers technique when it comes to this.

Fast Triplets
Scenario 1: First hit is the hardest. Second hit is not as hard as the first hit. Third hit is a little bit harder than the second hit but not as hard as the first.

Scenario 2: First hit is the softest. Second hit is the hardest. Third hit is in between.

Maybe you guys can also post other helpful tips like for example:
-Since the left hand is weaker than the right hand, Every other snare hit should be softer.
-Usually everyone has a weak and a strong leg. Usually your right leg is the stronger one, so again every other kick hit should be slightly softer.

EDIT: I would just like to add, I have already checked out a few videos of drummers and a ton of Drum covers on youtube to see how they play it. I just thought it would be really interesting to see how you guys approach this sort of thing.

 

[JeffEstrada]

Then you have to take in count all of the different patterns like

R-L-R-R---L-R-L-L---R-L-R-R---L-R-L-L---

http://www.tigerbill.com/drumlessons/masteringsingleparadiddles.htm

Joey maybe you can help out explaining a few of the things you do?

 

[SawdustRecordings]

I was asking myself the same question some weeks ago. Especially with fast snare fills. I think there are really different types of fills with different velocity patterns that make them sound realistic. Guess there are no real rules. But I would love to know them too if there are some.
I remember Joey saying that he could write a book about how to make a programmed or quantized drum sound realistic! Maybe he could give us some lines out of this book. Cause if you go closer in detail, there are not only velocity changes, but also timing values that vary..

 

[Vinny]

^^^ True, but if you are playing modern metal, it will be quantized to death anyway.

 

[Joel4662]

there are not only velocity changes, but also timing values that vary..

True that. I like to rush the beat a little personally especially at the start of a phrase that's built up (if that makes any sense) it just gives a nice push imo.

 

[Deebo]

How would you guys change the velocities in a fast double kick section?

 

[GTanguay]

Actually it pisses me off eveytime I see someone posting that the left hand is weaker than the right I've been playing drums since 12 years now and always worked my fuckin ass off to get my both hands at an equal level! so If you got a drummer which his left hand is weaker.. he's just not god enough yet! And for your question I would go with scenario one! since you're hitting 3 notes / beat which is different than the usual binary timing, drummers have this tendancy to mark the tempo with an accent on the first note of each triplet to not lose the beat and keep their hands tight on the kick!

 

[JeffEstrada]

I named this thread "Realistic Drum Velocities" and REALISTICALLY, the majority of drummers don't work to get both their hits the same. So the truth is most drummers really do have a harder hit on the right than the left....

Don't see why that would piss you off. I mean if you worked to get both hits the same, that's great for you but in a programming point of view, all hits the same just wouldn't sound realistic at all..

 

[Bropocalypse]

Been playing drums 12 years too, instead of just slating the OP about how hard a hand hits i thought id actually offer some advice.




If you're looking at realistic velocities and how a drummer would play something, literally sit down and tap it out, try and have a basic work out for yourself and use some of these key ideas.

When a drummer is playing a consistent 16th Kick pattern or a fill think about the tempo. If its a 16th fill at 140 chances are the velocites aren't going to be that different, think 120-125 ish (If they have good technique) however when the tempo starts racking up, from the hands 180 + the velocities get a bit more varied and on the feet about 160 +.

This is where accents come in to play, naturally a seasoned drummer will accent every beat on the click without realising, i naturally do it all the time.

For example we have a 16th note snare roll/fill. 1 e an a 2 e an a 3 e an a 4 e an a

On every whole number the right hand would hit a bit harder. Velocities would look something like.

1 e an a 2 e an a 3 e an a 4 e an a

125 119 121 118 126 118 120 119 125 119 121 119 125 119 120 119


Depending on the feel you aren wanting those can be adjusted, i generally go by the rule of colour/velocity.

Red/Orange - Right hand hits that usually fall on the number in a beat, fills that are not too fast, cymbal accents.

Orange/Yellow - Left hands hits following a tom/snare roll, triplets, blastbeats, fast fills.

Yellow/Blue - Ghost Notes, Build Ups, Ride accents.



With the kick drum, in most live cases everything is heavily compressed and there isn't that deal of velocity difference between left/right feet. Most double kick pedals are so well designed to distribute weight evenly, and some drummers even adjust their pedals to compensate for their weaker foot.

Id say the same rule as fast snare fills, higher velocities on the number accents, so 1 2 3 4 etc. and possibly slightly less but nothing too crazy. Too much velocity changing on the kick can make the playing sound sloppy, bear in mind a lot of metal drummers are triggering live these days to get over that problem.




Not sure if that was any help but thats just my experience and opinion

 

[Tommy Evans]

Thank you Bropacalypse for actually being helpful. I never even though of most of those things you brought up. Mega +1

 

[JeffEstrada]

That was definitely helpful, thank you so much!

 

[Deebo]

Exactly what I was looking for Bropocalypse thanks a ton.

 

[Joel4662]

Been playing drums 12 years too, instead of just slating the OP about how hard a hand hits i thought id actually offer some advice.

If you're looking at realistic velocities and how a drummer would play something, literally sit down and tap it out, try and have a basic work out for yourself and use some of these key ideas.

When a drummer is playing a consistent 16th Kick pattern or a fill think about the tempo. If its a 16th fill at 140 chances are the velocites aren't going to be that different, think 120-125 ish (If they have good technique) however when the tempo starts racking up, from the hands 180 + the velocities get a bit more varied and on the feet about 160 +.

This is where accents come in to play, naturally a seasoned drummer will accent every beat on the click without realising, i naturally do it all the time.

For example we have a 16th note snare roll/fill. 1 e an a 2 e an a 3 e an a 4 e an a

On every whole number the right hand would hit a bit harder. Velocities would look something like.

1 e an a 2 e an a 3 e an a 4 e an a

125 119 121 118 126 118 120 119 125 119 121 119 125 119 120 119

Depending on the feel you aren wanting those can be adjusted, i generally go by the rule of colour/velocity.

Red/Orange - Right hand hits that usually fall on the number in a beat, fills that are not too fast, cymbal accents.

Orange/Yellow - Left hands hits following a tom/snare roll, triplets, blastbeats, fast fills.

Yellow/Blue - Ghost Notes, Build Ups, Ride accents.

With the kick drum, in most live cases everything is heavily compressed and there isn't that deal of velocity difference between left/right feet. Most double kick pedals are so well designed to distribute weight evenly, and some drummers even adjust their pedals to compensate for their weaker foot.

Id say the same rule as fast snare fills, higher velocities on the number accents, so 1 2 3 4 etc. and possibly slightly less but nothing too crazy. Too much velocity changing on the kick can make the playing sound sloppy, bear in mind a lot of metal drummers are triggering live these days to get over that problem.

Not sure if that was any help but thats just my experience and opinion

This is my process exactly. Everything you said is a big +1000

 

[RedWire.RecordingStudios]

Awesome Bropocalypse. +∞

Can't say how much it helped me.

 

[jackbraglia]

also, when a kick is played in conjunction with a big cymbal hit, the drummer (whether he/she realizes it or not) will always slam on that kick a bit harder to make the impact that much bigger. so definitely keep that in mind. increasing the velocity for those hits will help give you some of that punch that is sometimes missing in programmed drums

 

[corybrunnemann]

record live drums you autotune -core faggots.

LOL!!
jk

i agree with the stomping for cymbal hits, i'm just an amateur drummer, but that's like the one thing i do consistently lol

 

[ahjteam]

Jeff, I can send you some drum + trigger tracks, I bet you can figure at least some stuff out from those.

 

[JeffEstrada]

Yea, that would help out a lot!