Reamping (amp -> Hotplate)

[digitaldeath]

Hey guys,
Need some input here, been scratching my head at this for a while.

Here's my signal chain: Interface (unbalanced out) -> Tubescreamer -> 6505 -> Hotplate -> interface.

I get feedback on the reamped signal when I use the line out from the Hotplate.

So I tried putting my Countryman in between the amp and the Hotplate. This allows me to essentially
split the signal coming out of the amp, one cable goes to the Hotplate and the other to my interface. The ground switch does the trick of eliminating the feedback of the reamped signal, but I find that no matter what amp I use, they all sound "undergained" even when I'm driving the levels
really hard into the Hotplate.
Surely this can't be right?!

So, will a reamp box solve my problem?
The signal coming out of my interface is unbalanced, as a guitar signal would be. I'm guessing the feedback I'm hearing is a ground loop problem...

Cheers!

 

[John_C]

a reamp box is needed between the interface and the tube screamer.

The feedback problem is probably just to do with how you've got your interface set up, for some reason the input is coming out the output, creating a loop. Feedback isn't caused by ground loops.

 

[guitarguru777]

NEEDING a reamp box is false. I re-amp all the time without a re-amp box and they come out fine.

The problem is your interface setup. You need to make sure the only thing pumping into the amp is the DI signal and not the "monitor out" from the interface.

What kind of interface is it?

 

[digitaldeath]

a reamp box is needed between the interface and the tube screamer.

The feedback problem is probably just to do with how you've got your interface set up, for some reason the input is coming out the output, creating a loop. Feedback isn't caused by ground loops.

Cheers, but when I introduce the Countryman, if I'm still getting that feedback kinda sound, I can kill it with the ground switch - without touching anything in my DAW.

NEEDING a reamp box is false. I re-amp all the time without a re-amp box and they come out fine.

The problem is your interface setup. You need to make sure the only thing pumping into the amp is the DI signal and not the "monitor out" from the interface.

What kind of interface is it?

Glad you replied dude, I've heard your "no reamp-box" reamps and they still sound great, so I'm really hoping you can help me get this sorted!

I'm using an M-Audio Fast Track Pro.

According to the manual, the headphone output on the front is directly linked to the TRS outputs (balanced) on the back, so for reamping I decided to use the phono outputs (unbalanced) - specifically, output 1.

I connect them using an RCA to TS phono cable.

So the cable from output 1 just goes into my Tubescreamer...

In my DAW, I set it up so that the DI track only sends to hardware output 1, and I re-record this back in on another track.
It sounds like shit when I use the line output from the Hotplate, like there's feedback appearing outta no where. I might make a quick video to show what I mean. Actually, come to think of it - the feedback signal might be hitting the Hotplate too as I've often see it's bulb go mental bright!
Should I be recording using the line level input (XLR) or instrument input (TS)? I'm using XLR at the moment.

I only have a 6505 and a Krank Rev Jr, so maybe if you have one of these amps, we could compare reamps with the same amp settings etc?

Cheers!

 

[Leon--]

Just buy a Reamp box,it will do the work perfectly without problems

 

[digitaldeath]

Just buy a Reamp box,it will do the work perfectly without problems

That's well and good, but can you say for certain that's the problem I'm having...?!

 

[guitarguru777]

If you plug a mic into the interface can you hear the signal coming out of the phono jacks you are using to send the DAW out to your amp?

If so thats your problem, you need to make sure the only sound coming out of the Phono out is the DAW. Nothing else. I am not familair with the M-Audio interfaces or what kind of control you have over those things.

If the M-Audio comes with some sort of control software that allows you to route in's and out's you should be able to figure it out.

Whats happening is if you are getting the mic signal out of the phono outs you a re-routing the mic'd signal back into the amp and that is whats causing your feedback.

 

[guitarguru777]

I looked up the manual and found this:

Input/Playback Mix Level Knob (Mix IN, PB) – This knob controls the audio mix sent to the Line Outputs, fading between the
input signals (input monitoring) and the output signal from your audio application software. When turned fully counter-clockwise
(IN position), only the input signals are heard at the line outputs. When turned fully clockwise (PB position), only the output signal
from your DAW software is heard at the line outputs.

Make sure that knob is turned fully clockwise when re-amping.

 

[John_C]

output impedance of those phono outputs is about 150 ohms, compared to the output impedance of an EMG 81 which is 10,000 ohms

This will change the sound. I'm not saying you can't get a good tone without a reamp box, but it's going to sound significantly different to just plugging the guitar straight in.

 

[guitarguru777]

As stated in other threads if anyone has a Reamp box they can afford to part with for a week or so I would love to do a shoot out. I am not about to buy one just to prove it makes absolutely no difference, with my interface at least.....

I am not sure how the cheaper interfaces handle it, but my Focusrite with or without a Reamp box sounds identical.

 

[digitaldeath]

Cheers for the tips guys, I hope to get a chance to try it out later this week and I'll report back.

 

[digitaldeath]

Ok, I got to try it today before work.
Krank Rev Jr works as expected after some messing around - not a huge difference between the Hotplate line out and the Rev Jr line out (which I believe is poweramp + preamp).
The Peavey 6505 is a different story however. Reamping through the preamp out sounds fine, but I really do miss being able to use to res and pres knobs.
When I take the line out from the Hotplate, if the post-gain knob is too loud, the signal screeches like a mofo and is made worse by engaging my Tubescreamer.
I found that if I had the post-gain near zero and then got the pre-gain level to where I was happy, I could only turn the post-gain up a hair. It's not enough to push the Hotplate's bulb (which reacts to the incoming signal) but I'm getting a decent input level in my DAW and can defo hear the res & pres knobs making a difference on the signal.

I'll try reamp this way and again with preamp only just to see if you guys think I'm getting the correct results.

 

[PaoloJM]

output impedance of those phono outputs is about 150 ohms, compared to the output impedance of an EMG 81 which is 10,000 ohms

This will change the sound. I'm not saying you can't get a good tone without a reamp box, but it's going to sound significantly different to just plugging the guitar straight in.

This bit I haven't been able to understand.
The DI signal was recorded with the guitar impedance as it was the guitar in the first place.
I would have though the lowest output impedance possible would be desirable so as not to alter the pre-recorded guitar tone in any way.
Any additional impedance added will be summed to the original guitar impedance.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding things?

 

[digitaldeath]

Alright, I got a reamp done.
I know you're all sick of hearing it - but please do give it a listen and let me know if it sounds alright.
Everything was reamped through my 6505 except for the cleans, which went through the Rev Jr. Just wish I had some delay & chorus pedals just to make those cleans shimmer a bit.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14373373/RoseOfSharynReamp.mp3

 

[TheWinterSnow]

EDIT: FT pro doesn't have the software control panel. Simple as this. Set main outputs to 1/2 in the DAW, set DI to 3/4. Plug main monitors to TRS 1/2 and amp to 3/4 with the RCA to TS cable, return the Hotplate line in to input 1/2. Make sure that the mix knob is turned to PB (as others have said).

From the Manual:

Signals routed to Outputs 1 and 2 in your DAW application will appear at the rear-panel TRS Outputs 1 and 2, and be duplicated at
unbalanced Outputs 1 and 2.

When Outputs 3 and 4 are activated, they will show up as output channels in your DAW application. Signals routed to Outputs 3 and 4
in your DAW application will appear at the S/PDIF outputs, and be duplicated at unbalanced Outputs 3 and 4.

The level to the analog outputs is controlled by the main output level control.

So like I said, send your DI's to outs to 3/4 record on inputs 1/2 and turn off any direct monitoring.

 

[digitaldeath]

EDIT: FT pro doesn't have the software control panel. Simple as this. Set main outputs to 1/2 in the DAW, set DI to 3/4. Plug main monitors to TRS 1/2 and amp to 3/4 with the RCA to TS cable, return the Hotplate line in to input 1/2. Make sure that the mix knob is turned to PB (as others have said).

From the Manual:



So like I said, send your DI's to outs to 3/4 record on inputs 1/2 and turn off any direct monitoring.

Yup, did that - works perfectly using the preamp out of 6505 but I want to get the poweramp in there.
Listen to my reamp test above. That's with the poweramp in there (line-out from Hotplate), I just had to have the volume down lower than I would've liked, but the res and pres knobs were defo doing their job, which is what I wanted!
Cheers for the help guys!