Recording equipment, HELP PLEASE!

[DURBANS]

Hi

I just bought an SM57 for guitar recording purposes.

I need advice or maybe an "okay" check to see if the following gear would be adecuate to produce a semi-pro home recording for a home-made album of my band, since we are unsinged (if it makes a difference) and we are on a budget. We will record the drums at a studio and I will import the wav tracks into my computer afterwards, to record on top.

1) M-Audio Audiophile 2496 PCI soundcard
2) Behringer UB1202 or similar small mixer, perhaps Yamaha MG 10-2
3) Art MP (mic preamp), maybe the one with the limiter on it
4) Shure SM58 for vocals
5) Cakewalk Sonar 3.0 Producer Edition (I used the Pro Audio 8 version, so I guess I'm used to Cakewalk's ways)

All that into a 2.4 Ghz Pentium IV 512 RAM, 120 GB pc.

I was told that this was the basic setup, since I wont be using many tracks in the mixer or soundcard, I will record guitars bass and vocals through this, each instrument at a time. For vocals I will use an SM58 with a Popper Stopper which I already bought.

I need advice perhaps on what mixer to get, on the $120 range new. Behringer sounds familiar but I don't know if it's the best I could get in that range.

I will run the SM57 into the Art MP then into the mixer and then into the 2496 through the RCA output. That's what I've also been told to do.

As soon as I know this is the right gear or not, I will proceed to buy the stuff and start recording and ask more specific questions later on (If I may ) and I hope everything goes right.

Thanks in advance guys, I know people ask this all the time but I just had to ask as well since Im kinda "lost" on this subject.

For the demo, we used the same PC but with a Creative Live 5.1 card, and a crappy 2 dollar mic for guitars, bass and vocals. Drums were MIDI (Soundfonts). You can hear some songs here: (songs have just been uploaded so they may take a while to show up, I'll let you know...)

My band: CATENAS on Audiostreet

Oh, even if you are not into the subject of this topic, you should check out our cover of Megadeth's "Psychotron". And of course our songs in there rule supreme hehehe!

 

[elmuchoescadawg]

If your recording the drums somewhere else and your on that much of a budget why not just plug the Art tube MP straight into the Audiophile card and forget all about anything Behringher? From what youve said I cant see why you would have a need for a separate mixer at the moment?!?!
Mic, pre amp, line in of good card seems to be the way. This will accomodate guitars, bass and vocals. I believe you can even use the tube MP as a DI box for the bass...

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Yes, you don't need a mixer, especially if it's a crappy one... Mic > Pre Amp > Sound Card is the way to go !
The SM58 has a pop screen included in the head, so you wouldn't need the Popper Stopper. Feel free to use it anyway, but if the sound is too dull or lack air, remove it. But if you already have a SM-57, I'd suggest not to buy a 58 and, with the money saved from the mix+58 economy, buy a cheap but good condenser mic (Rode for example) you could use for vocals and other stuffs as well (acoustic guitars, etc...).
Cakewalk Sonar 3 ? If you don't have it yet, go for Sonar 4 ! And if you don't have it yet, go for Samplitude 8 !

Well that's my opinion =)

 

[elmuchoescadawg]

Another way, again if you are on a tight budget, go for a digi mbox, a 57 and a rode. Thats your software, 2 pre amps, DIs, and 2 decent mics for less that £500s if you shop around. (he says assuming your all in the UK).

 

[deconjoe]

Yeah I agree anything Berringer or any mixer that costs $120 is worthless.....

 

[elmuchoescadawg]

I disagree, for gear in this sort of price range a Berhingher will provide a pre, an in and an out. its just another way to convert mic to line level. They dont have the best pres in the world but for the application were talking about they would do the job as long as your gain structures ok. You can get good results from cheap gear as long as you know its limitations and use it carefully!!

 

[DURBANS]

Thanks for the replies

But, how would I connect the pre (MP) directly to the card if the pre doesn't have an RCA output like the mixer does? I ask this because the 2496 card has this type of inputs only.

I was told about getting a mixer since, they told me, you can eq the signal and in some knd of way, you have a better control of it. Looks like it's not necesary.

Oh, one other question: I was told that when you record an electric guitar you need to have the mic'd signal and the line out signal from the amp both going into the mixer. Is this true?

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

But, how would I connect the pre (MP) directly to the card if the pre doesn't have an RCA output like the mixer does? I ask this because the 2496 card has this type of inputs only.

Then don't buy it ! Hahaha A jack/RCA cable should be fine (but remember you'll only be able to record in mono since the preamp is mono (unless the one you're about to buy is stereo...

I was told about getting a mixer since, they told me, you can eq the signal and in some knd of way, you have a better control of it. Looks like it's not necesary.

It's not necessary and it's a "No No !!!", keep the signal as clean and natural as possible, you'll have all the possibilities to edit it during the mix ! Also, adding a cheap mixer in the chain (moreover if it's a Behringer) will only degrade your signal quality and add noise

Oh, one other question: I was told that when you record an electric guitar you need to have the mic'd signal and the line out signal from the amp both going into the mixer. Is this true?

No... You can if you want, but you don't need to.

 

[DURBANS]

I will record in mono, I mean, I'm gonna do 4 rhythm tracks, so since I have to record all four, I don't see the need for a stereo signal. Or when you say stereo you mean something else?

Will that jack/RCA be a good way to do things? What is the purpose of a mixer and why do most people refer to small mixers as "home recording mixers"? Sorry, I'm kinda new...

 

[elmuchoescadawg]

nothing wrong with being new and we all learned it somewhere! The Jack RCA connector is totally. Once you add a computer and an audio sequencer into the equation you dont really need eq or a hardware mixer anymore, more times its nice, Im glad ive got loads of outboard but I can work without it and often do.

 

[DURBANS]

How would a studio record a guitar? Through a mixing board or directly from the preamp to the card? I mean, even Andy, let's say he will record just the guitar tracks for a band, each track done separately each at a time. Will he use the board or straight from the preamp? I don't mean "specifically" Andy, just trying to picture a professional studio's approach.

 

[deconjoe]

generally you want to go directly from the pre to the recorder (card in your case)... especially in your situation. Whereever possible I go from the pre to the converter to ProTools The ART MP is decent for what you are doing definitely bypass the cheap mixer when recording.... I use the board to mix thats it......

 

[Ermz]

Some folks have boards with really nice Mic pres so in those cases you'd be going straight into the mixing console. Certain digital mixers allow you to 'virtually mix' inside your box. So instead of working the faders in Cubase or ProTools with your mouse, you're working em with the physical console. That's a big help for mixing.

I'm thinking pro studios are too mixer-centric to actually just bypass it and go from mic > mic pre > PC interface. Alot of their consoles have great mic pres anyway so they wouldn't need to.

I think it just comes down to whether you need a mixer, and how much you're willing to spend on it. Obviously it becomes more essential when you dual-mic an amp or record drums, but if you're just going one SM57 at a time, I don't see a reason why you'd need one at all. The less gear in your signal chain, the better.

 

[DURBANS]

Ok, then I just need to know the following:

Can I record with 2 sm57's lets say on channel 1 and 2 of the mixer and send the whole thing as a mono signal to the sound card? I mean, Im guessing that by using 2 mics I may get a thicker sound or something...

Oh and also, what if I use the Art pre AND the mixer's pre? Ain't that better (forget the noise)?

PD: Clips are now available! Just click here: CLICK ME!

 

[elmuchoescadawg]

Oh and also, what if I use the Art pre AND the mixer's pre? Ain't that better (forget the noise)?

No you only need one pre amp or the other. Remember all a desk is is a load of preamps followed by eqs feeding a bus

 

[DURBANS]

Ok, one other question:

Let's say I don't buy a mixer and buy a preamp.

And, lets say I want to use TWO mics to mic my amp's cab.

So, I get TWO preamps from ART (or some kind of "dual" preamp if there are any) and I connect each mic to each preamp. Okay. Now, the 2496 has FOUR RCA inputs (pins). Meaning, I can connect each preamp (there are 2) to one of the 4 pins. Right?

Meaning, on my recording software I will get 2 tracks of audio from this setup, each coming from each mic. BUT, these tracks will contain the same "riff" and both TOGETHER are equal to 1 of the 4 rhythm guitar tracks I'm planning to record. Meaning, at the end, I will have 8 tracks of audio?

 

[deconjoe]

Ok, one other question:

Let's say I don't buy a mixer and buy a preamp.

And, lets say I want to use TWO mics to mic my amp's cab.

So, I get TWO preamps from ART (or some kind of "dual" preamp if there are any) and I connect each mic to each preamp. Okay. Now, the 2496 has FOUR RCA inputs (pins). Meaning, I can connect each preamp (there are 2) to one of the 4 pins. Right?

Meaning, on my recording software I will get 2 tracks of audio from this setup, each coming from each mic. BUT, these tracks will contain the same "riff" and both TOGETHER are equal to 1 of the 4 rhythm guitar tracks I'm planning to record. Meaning, at the end, I will have 8 tracks of audio?

/Right!

 

[DURBANS]

Oh ok...

So, what do you guys reccomend me to use? 1 or 2 mics?

I'm planning to get the best sound possible, I'm kinda aiming at a guitar sound similar to Exodus's "Tempo Of The Damned" or Arch Enemy's "Anthems Of Rebellion". Could I get those results with 1 or with 2 mics?

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

1 mic, don't overcomplicate things, using two mics for the same source would very likely induce some phasing problems, unless you really know what you're doing (but I doubt it ).

 

[DURBANS]

LOL, well, I guess you're right. But ain't the 2 mic format kinda like the standard?

Plus, would I get the results I'm expecting from the single mic way?