Recording in Drop A?

[[UEAK]Clowd]

So I just started recording this like hardcore-ish band and they insist on tuning to Drop A.

This seems like kind of an unrealistic tuning? My band plays in B and I have done stuff in A# before but A seems like the bass guitar would just flub out? and even if it doesn't, it's fundamental is going to be like even lower than the kick?

any tips/good reads?

 

[WestCoastCrush]

It will be lower than the kick, but that won't be the issue most likely. The issue will be that your guitar fundamentals will all be in the range of around 40-50 Hz, which leaves little to no room for bass guitar, not to mention you'll still need to carve a space for the kick. Extremely low tunings like this can often cause problems like this. I think this might be why Meshuggah ditched their bassist when they went to 8 strings with a low F# for Nothing. Plus they were using PODs. If you aren't planning on using a POD or a similar device (i.e. something with actual physical and electrical limitations) go for a relatively high wattage amp to maximize headroom and ability to cleanly move low frequencies. Solid state will deliver a tighter low-end if looseness becomes an issue. Mic placement will be insanely important as will speaker choice. Definitely ceramics like the V30 or something similar to tighten the lows. You might have to make sure the guitarists don't "pull a n00b guitarist" and put the bass on 8-10, as it might get excessive. You also may want to privately apologize to the bassist that he's been made partially redundant .

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

Yeah that's what I figured. They want an "I Killed The Prom Queen" type of sound... not gonna happen without a strong bass guitar, I'm afraid.

Maybe I can get the bass player on my side in convincing them to tune up a little bit.

 

[WestCoastCrush]

You could have them tune standard and have them play the whole thing 2nd inversion, but unless they're theoretically knowledgeable guitarists, it might be difficult. More likely than not, you're looking at a lot of sitting around tweaking HP filters, Low shelf EQs, levels between bass guitars, guitars and kick drum and multiband compression levels. Good luck.

 

[vespiz]

Well, our latest album was in A-tuning and I thought it turned out ok..

 

[::XeS::]

Try to eq the amp with more hi-mids and less bass, and the bass is usefull too (look at Meshuggah, Divine Heresy, etc...)

 

[Harry Hughes]

Bands have been playing in A standard/drop A since the 90s, I don't see how this suddenly becomes a problem in 2009.
Hate to say this WestCoastCrush, but some of the stuff you said was quite poor and advice and some blatantly incorrect.
First off, we have this thing called a high pass filter. Get rid of all the sub 100Hz content of the guitars and bingo, the problem with the guitars interfering in that range is gone.
That's out of the way.
Meshuggah did lose their bassists, but there IS BASS GUITAR on Nothing. The guitars aren't magically chunking by themselves, come on guys, we should know this by now.
The guitars are sitting in the mids, and the bass is sitting in the low end. What they have done is tuned the bass guitar up one semi tone to F standard (to match the guitars, they are tuned to F, not F#) and there we have it, the bass guitar is doing it's job.

Drop A is going to be PERFECTLY FINE, seriously. As long as the instruments are good, the strings are new and the amp settings are good (and of course, you're using a good amp/good amp sim), you'll be fine.
If the band doesn't have one on hand, tell them to rent a 35 inch scale bass guitar for the tracking sessions. IME 35 inch scale basses handle drop A with complete ease where 34 inch scale basses might fall down.

 

[cobhc]

For a good example of a bass still adding something to the low end with low tuned guitars is on Skeksis by Strapping Young Lad, 7 string tuned to Open G and when the bass kicks in you can really hear it.

 

[jval]

no don't pitch shift...

just get HUGE STRINGS. Yes the low note on bass will suck no matter what...make sure you use some overdrive on it. And unless their guitars can fit 70 gauge strings, go and rent a baritone guitar. Drop A is nothing for those... it'll save you a lot of headache.
check out this thread... song I did with a band tuned to drop A# with a low G on the 7th string. http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/rate-my-mix-tone-threads/545362-drop-mix.html

 

[Torniojaws]

How about a baritone 7-string (or more) guitar?

 

[mick thompson]

if i were you i would do the BASS AS MIDI

Chances are the bass guitar is not even set up for such a low demonic tuning range and your going to get some serious clarity issues and pops when he starts hitting the strings off the fret board and pickups naturally due to the tuning range.

Make sure you DI that bass, dont just rely on a bass amp because for such a low tuning range bass clarity will only come through if using just a bass amp in your mix on a high end stereo with a good near sub range. so to keep bass clarity and to hold it in the mix take a good DI of it and give it a nice bit of compression, mid boost and a nice level of gain to make it sit nicely in the mix

Guitars i wouldn't feel is an issue, get them set up properly by a professional and use a very heavy gauge and make sure they are played in about 2 days because due to the low string tension they will be more flexible causing more tuning problems IMHO

drums - i would make them pretty clicky if there is a lot of low end tuning on the bass & guitars etc just to make them cut through the sub freq's and to fill out the high end of the spectrum because there is going to be a lot of low end rumble in this mix i presume

vox - you know yourself

synth shit if any - you know yourself

 

[Wolfeman]

I don't see why this would be troublesome, look at bands like Acacia Strain, they tune that low on standard scale guitars and seems like their mixes come out sounding alright. Guitars and bass are clearly definable.

 

[plague_rider]

I've had my bass tuned to GCGCF before... i like it actually, i tried it through a 4x10+1x15 stack and it sounded awesome, no flappy low end or anything...

 

[Josh Burgess]

unrealistic tuning? lol come on! tons of bands play in A or lower without problems. I will say though that for anything lower then Ab/G#, I'd play the bass parts an octave up (on the same octave as the guitars) to avoid muddyness from the bass. Ab is as low as I'd ever want to go on a bass.

I personally play in Bb standard and Drop Ab, but I listen to tons of stuff lower than that... down to F and beyond

 

[Josh Burgess]

It will be lower than the kick, but that won't be the issue most likely. The issue will be that your guitar fundamentals will all be in the range of around 40-50 Hz, which leaves little to no room for bass guitar, not to mention you'll still need to carve a space for the kick. Extremely low tunings like this can often cause problems like this. I think this might be why Meshuggah ditched their bassist when they went to 8 strings with a low F# for Nothing. Plus they were using PODs. If you aren't planning on using a POD or a similar device (i.e. something with actual physical and electrical limitations) go for a relatively high wattage amp to maximize headroom and ability to cleanly move low frequencies. Solid state will deliver a tighter low-end if looseness becomes an issue. Mic placement will be insanely important as will speaker choice. Definitely ceramics like the V30 or something similar to tighten the lows. You might have to make sure the guitarists don't "pull a n00b guitarist" and put the bass on 8-10, as it might get excessive. You also may want to privately apologize to the bassist that he's been made partially redundant .

Meshuggah play in F, not F#, and they have a bassist. On the old 7 string Bb material, the bass plays along an ocatve below. On the 8 string F material, the bass parts are played on the same octave as the guitar to keep things clear. The solution for the bassist to play old and new songs live is to tune to drop Bb on a 5 string bass... as in, the low string is dropped one semitone to Bb and the high 4 strings are tuned up one semitone to F, so they are on the same octave as the guitars for all of the open note fast staccato riffing. Bb F Bb Eb Ab.

For examples around A or Ab that are really clear (and really fucking heavy) listen to the album Dystopia by Beneath The Massacre or the album Continent by The Acacia Strain.

 

[AXI]

Depending on the type of riff I think a guitar and (distorted) bass tuned to the same A would sound pretty cool. The timbre of the bass would add some nice punch (as we know from Meshuggah).

 

[Josh Burgess]

Depending on the type of riff I think a guitar and (distorted) bass tuned to the same A would sound pretty cool. The timbre of the bass would add some nice punch (as we know from Meshuggah).

The Beneath The Massacre album mentioned above is in A and has distorted bass. check it out

 

[NicholasDWolfwood]

Nile plays in drop A. Some songs from Gorguts are in Drop G. Strapping Young Lad's song "Possessions" is in drop E I think (IE one full step down from a normal E-tuned guitar). I don't see why drop A is a problem.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

I don't think A is difficult at all. One of the most popular bands of the late 90s to early 2000s did the A thing.

 

[Nebulous]

Get rid of all the sub 100Hz content of the guitars

This, or something similar. Filter out the subs from the guitars and let the bass handle that. Concentrate the guitars so they sound full within the mid range and work the bass to fill what the guitars are missing.

As an extreme example, if you were to filter out the guitars up to 200Hz, you would not hear the fundamental, but would still know what riff is being played, so don't be afraid of some subtle (100-120Hz) filtering in this case.