Recording songs in different sessions- issues together

[lolzgreg]

well said. I really need to be alot more picky with the bands I record. Im more concerned with making good music than churning out a million shitty demos. Its only worth my time to work with a bands if they are willing to do a proper preproduction. If I`m going to put my name on it, and If I am going to take any ownership over the music, I have to have my heart in it 100% if Im working on a mix with a poor arrangement, sloppy performances, and an unorganized band, Im not even having fun any more

My point exactly. Every band I work with LOVES working with me, because we have fun, and I am fortunate enough to have some kind of non-erudite knowledge that allows me to recognize what the best way to produce a band's work is. Business is about having a good relationship with the client.

 

[lolzgreg]

No. Never had a problem triggering a live performance. Mistrigger = cut the hit out...easy as pie.

Okay. Send me a snare track with ghost notes and a snare roll as well as hard hits on it. Tell me your drumagog settings and we'll see it track the hits PERFECTLY, right? There is new software coming out with better algorhithms now, but as of current times, highly proficient, multi-velocity drum triggering software is just emerging.

 

[Force666]

Also, do you track in some of the most astoudning live rooms in the world

That came off as a little snippy to me.

Ok sorry. You're right it's the internets and context can get lost in typing.

Seemed as if you're saying "I'm right, and you're wrong." But, whatever.

I just don't subscribe to the "It's MY and their recording." A recording can sound super good and have shitty playing on it. Truthfully I don't even give a shit. I'de rather have people know they suck at playing their shit, so the world doesn't end up with more Attack Attacks. As long as their shitty playing Sounds good, i'm cool with it.

 

[Force666]

Okay. Send me a snare track with ghost notes and a snare roll as well as hard hits on it. Tell me your drumagog settings and we'll see it track the hits PERFECTLY, right? There is new software coming out with better algorhithms now, but as of current times, highly proficient, multi-velocity drum triggering software is just emerging.

I always split the snare into two tracks. One for blast, fills and ghost notes. One for hard hits.....problem solved. Now your turn...post your midi track with all of those (that it didn't take a fuckin year to program), then do a blind test to see who can tell if it's real or not.

Now if that isn't condescending, then what is. I mean fuck, you're totally right. Andy Sneap, Fredrik Nordstrom and just about every other great engineer has been totally doing it wrong. They should have been programming drums all this time.

 

[crosstalk]

I didn't read everything, but as Greg said at the beginning. It's always a good idea to have the DI's of guitar and bass. This is especially important when you're tracking a little here and there.

Sample replacement can save the day for the drums for the most part. If you dig the drum sound you were getting, sample the kit and you'll have it being consistent on every song.

The only time that I think tracks sounding different from each other really works is for pop music. I like metal and the sort to be pretty consistent.

 

[lolzgreg]

I also HATE the idea of having to track drums, then quantize them, then continue with tracking. Most people who record with me don't have a $5000 budget to allow time for this. Programming midi drums does not take that long at all and it's always dead on.

This relates back to the tracking drums in the best studio in the world topic. Do you record bands that have $5000 dollar budgets? I know I sure don't.

Now if that isn't condescending, then what is. I mean fuck, you're totally right. Andy Sneap, Fredrik Nordstrom and just about every other great engineer has been totally doing it wrong. They should have been programming drums all this time.

If you want to know what would be condescending, I could say, "Hey stupid, your method sucks and so do you."

Guess what, Mr. "I'm on my man period today," I AM NOT Sneap, Nordstrom or Bogren. I'm sure if I was I'd be working with some of the best bands in the world, and I wouldn't have to worry much about them performing in a lack-luster manner. I don't know if YOU'RE Sneap, Nordstrom or Bogren, but if you were one of them and had such an antsy attitude, I sure wouldn't want to work with you

I always split the snare into two tracks. One for blast, fills and ghost notes. One for hard hits.....problem solved. Now your turn...post your midi track with all of those (that it didn't take a fuckin year to program), then do a blind test to see who can tell if it's real or not.

I didn't ask about it being real or not. That method is a useful method, I've done it before. I also own drumagog, and I would love to hear of a setting to really make it track complex parts perfectly. I didn't ask for any blind tests. I'm curious to hear you post a snare track with ghost notes, rolls, and hard hits, and use one track of a replacement plugin and make it sound like the original track. Is there anything wrong with curiousity? Asking questions is how you learn.

Do you record drummers who have such excellent technique that they can get through a whole song in excellent time without hitting a rim, slipping or having a weak snare note (or five or ten?) I know I don't. I've recorded one that blew me away, but one is the lonliest number of them all...

I don't know why you're so upset. I'm not personally attacking you; it's pretty clear. I even mentioned that no one had to agree with my methods. I'm simply telling the OP'er what I do, how it works, and how it may work for him.

 

[Force666]

This relates back to the tracking drums in the best studio in the world topic. Do you record bands that have $5000 dollar budgets? I know I sure don't.

Dude, you're acting fucking stupid now. You said...you program drums, then track them, then edit them. So i'm doing LESS work than you...which equals less money.

If you want to know what would be condescending, I could say, "Hey stupid, your method sucks and so do you."

That would be being an asshole. That's not what "condescending" means.

con·de·scend·ing adj.
Displaying a patronizingly superior attitude:

I don't know if YOU'RE Sneap, Nordstrom or Bogren,

I'm certainly not. Nor did I ever imply that I was.

, but if you were one of them and had such an antsy attitude, I sure wouldn't want to work with you

Vice Versa. I'm not working with you, nor have I ever even met you. But, if you were here right now, i'de just beat the shit out of you for your "condescending" little fuckwad attitude.

I'm not gonna go on and on dude. When your balls drop and you grow up maybe you'll get it.

 

[lolzgreg]

Dude, you're acting fucking stupid now. You said...you program drums, then track them, then edit them. So i'm doing LESS work than you...which equals less money.

Who said I charge by the hour for drum programming? Now you're diving into a whole different topic.

Vice Versa. I'm not working with you, nor have I ever even met you. But, if you were here right now, i'de just beat the shit out of you for your "condescending" little fuckwad attitude.

People over the internet have big mouths and big fists. It's funny how much shit people talk when they're 2800 miles away and behind a computer screen. You don't even know me and you're flipping over the most ridiculous things man. If anyone needs to grow up its you:

 

[kass]

its just drums guys.

 

[crosstalk]

So this dude asks for some help and we get 30 posts of arguing about something that really doesn't change his situation at all.


Once again, I would recommend sample replacing drums, that should take care of them for the most part. Especially that day that they sounded poorly. Hopefully your overheads and the drum setup were pretty close to the same and even if they aren't, I don't think it will be very noticeable.

If you aren't able to reamp the guitars to get them all sounding similar, you might try getting them to match eq wise either by comparing them or maybe using CurveEQ.

Try to get things close to the same and then get levels in order.

Also, if each track stands on it's own, good mastering might help, but if you're looking for a somewhat consistent sound, mastering won't get you there. If the guitar tone and volume is all over the place between songs, mastering won't do a thing.

 

[lilhermiejobo]

I totally just read through this thread and watched it unravel into a mindless pissing contest for absolutely no good reason.
Force666 wins the Douche Bag Of The Thread Award for his awesomely BAD comprehension skills. Completely objective and unbiased, I did not notice a single condescending remark from lolzgreg toward anyone. If anything, Force666 was the first to attack and become increasingly agitated.
Dumb.

 

[::XeS::]

Greg is right. In my last project I tracked guitars to a midi drums/DFHS exported from their GuitarPro files.
The drummer recorded with the guitarPro song w/o the drum track and a click. He recorded first but I used midi drums for the guitarists and bassist as well.
The difference between Sneap, Nordstom,etc... is that they usually record bands that know how to play, at least way better than the usual 18years old guy that doesn't know nothing, doesn't know what's a click,etc, etc, etc...
So, if you track a well prepared drummer you'll have to edit some little parts or little mistakes but if you have to edit a whole fuckin' song (x5 songs or 10songs) when will you start to track guitars? After a week or 2?
So it's very usefull to have midi drums for the other guys, expecially if you work with guys that aren't very expert. You know, if I regularly track people like Derek Roddy, Dirk Van Den Broek, Franky Costanza or Thomas Haake, the midi drum could not be a problem. But for other guys at the first recording experience and something like that, it's very usefull.
The good thing about GuitarPro is that the bands can do all the preproduction before they enter into the studio and send me the files so I can use them to prepare my sessions with the guide tracks. It's not necessary to go to the studio to prepare these tracks...and anyway, "lot of work for tracks that will not be used" is called (yes, also by Sneap and the others) Preproduction. So I don't understand this argue about that.

 

[Force666]

Ok, well I'll apologize to everyone for my "pissy" attitude. Although I will say that I don't read it that way. All I did was explain my OPINION, that I think/thought that it sounds like a hard way to work. Where I was confronted with "You're wrong". Everyone has a right to work whatever way they feel necessary. I have a right to my opinion.

In XES' case, it makes perfect sense. The band did all the drum programming. Nothing wrong with that. The point being he/you didn't have to do extra work, to make less work.

Personally I've heard maybe one or two of a thousand programmed drums that sound close to "the real thing". One of those times it was programmed by The drummer.

If the drummer is THAT bad, I don't see how you're not going to end up editing the whole performance anyways. And it's going to be even harder to edit because you have to match it up PERFECTLY to the already recorded tracks. Whereas if you track drums first they can defnintly end up a bit "looser".

So sorry to the forum for the "pissing contest", but trust me, at one time or another i've had to sit here and read yours.

 

[::XeS::]

Anyway, lot of studios do some days of preproduction with the bands before the start of the tracking and it's always lot of work that will not be used in the final product. But personaly, if I have to do preproduction I wouldn't do it for free.

 

[Force666]

Anyway, lot of studios do some days of preproduction with the bands before the start of the tracking and it's always lot of work that will not be used in the final product. But personaly, if I have to do preproduction I wouldn't do it for free.

For sure. I don't disagree with that in the slightest bit. I ONLY disagree to tracking drums LAST after all the guitars and bass are recorded.

 

[lolzgreg]

I find pre-pro to be the least stressfull time of recording. I tend to just do a flate rate charge for those days that's reasonable to the band. It also makes the band feel less pressured when it comes time to record. By then, they should know their shit REAL well. If they don't, it's their problem, because the hours are gonna cost 'em.