Recording Studios Face Uncertain Future

[Charlie E.]

Personally I think the quality of music has gone downhill overtime as well but that's another thread entirely I suppose.
I must've bought about a hundred cd's before 2000. I've probably bought at most 15-20 since then. :Smug:

 

[nwright]

Metallica can come record in my apartment, helen keller could mix it and stevie wonder could direct the video for their first single and it would still sell like hot cakes.

So that DIDN'T happen with Death Magnetic?

 

[James Murphy]

herein lies the conundrum...

nothing can replace a good room/engineer/mics/mix but how many consumers actually care about the production on an album though? Metallica can come record in my apartment, helen keller could mix it and stevie wonder could direct the video for their first single and it would still sell like hot cakes.

so why should the labels put out an insane amount of money to record albums when half the time, it goes unappreciated.

mm-k

bottom line is production and mixing do matter... sure, metallica is already mega-famous, so of course they'll sell... but they STILL caught loads of shit for how bad DM sounds... and even more for SA.

sorry, but if you are actually putting forward an argument of "no one care about sound, so fuck it" attitude.. well, you just go ahead and roll with that. we'll check in with you in 5 years and see how well it's worked out for ya,

 

[musickey]

A side note.

 

[DaveBlack]

sorry, but if you are actually putting forward an argument of "no one care about sound, so fuck it" attitude.. well, you just go ahead and roll with that. we'll check in with you in 5 years and see how well it's worked out for ya,

You're kiddin right? I want nothing more than to be able to do what I love for a living but I feel as though I'm being pretty realistic about the state mainstream music. I'm sure Metallica did catch shit for the way those albums sounded, and they rightfully should, but how many fans said "well, since it's poorly produced i'm not buying it fuck them."

The point I'm actually trying to make is that when the big exec's sit down at the round table and discuss a bands album, I dont think that "top quality recording and mixing at a lavish studio over the period 6 months cuz we wanna perfect it" is gonna win the battle against "cheap and good enough to get out by christmas"

And yeah I think this has a hell of a lot to do with why studios who's clientel used to consist of sony and universal artists are going the way of the dodo

 

[egan.]

I don't think you can really say that in this context, because the advent of truly "decent" to good home studios did not come about until pretty much after ALL of the albums on that list, IMO. Also, the music biz has changed SO much in the last 7 years that I don't even think anyone will ever come close to the numbers put up by these acts.

I know what your saying but my argument is that you simply cannot/won't get albums on the scale of Darkside of the Moon from a home studio. The rooms, the time taken, and the large team of talented folks involved can't happen on no budget in a home studio even if the actual recording could. To me that's disheartening.
There are also much smaller (granted non-metal) records I love where real strings and a real Steinway in a real room take good songs and make them breathtaking.
Don't get me wrong, I have benefited tremendously from the technology but I think people too quickly disregard what we got from the old system.


Regarding the graph you posted (which I think is very pertinent), I think it is important to bear in mind that even though less music is purchased more is being consumed. Only 5% of music being acquired online is paid for. Some basic math on the current data leads you to the realization that only 15% of all music acquired (in any format) is paid for. Lost profits trickle down. There was an early comment about the "market at work" but I'm not sure that an 85% theft rate is part of a "fair" market.

 

[James Murphy]

The point I'm actually trying to make is that when the big exec's sit down at the round table and discuss a bands album, I dont think that "top quality recording and mixing at a lavish studio over the period 6 months cuz we wanna perfect it" is gonna win the battle against "cheap and good enough to get out by christmas"

so your argument then is that labels don't care about production anymore?

well, i'll leave it at this... i have just been hired, within 4 days time, to mix two upcoming albums by new artists for a well known metal label, because they didn't like the mixes that were delivered by the guys who were orginally hired to do them. if what you are saying were strictly true, the label would have just taken the first mixes they got... they were decent after all, just not "great"... and saved the time and money... but apparently they do care enough about mixes to not do that.

yep, there are labels that don't care at all... they shall "go the way of the dodo" as you put it... and some already have. *cough*Crash*cough.

anyway... there's no doubt things will get shittier before they get better, in general... but lets try to avoid such broad strokes when painting a picture of the current landscape.... cuz it's complicated and difficult, but it's not that black and white.

 

[DaveBlack]

so your argument then is that labels don't care about production anymore?

well, i'll leave it at this... i have just been hired, within 4 days time, to mix two upcoming albums by new artists for a well known metal label, because they didn't like the mixes that were delivered by the guys who were orginally hired to do them. if what you are saying were strictly true, the label would have just taken the first mixes they got... they were decent after all, just not "great"... and saved the time and money... but apparently they do care enough about mixes to not do that.

yep, there are labels that don't care at all... they shall "go the way of the dodo" as you put it... and some already have. *cough*Crash*cough.

anyway... there's no doubt things will get shittier before they get better, in general... but lets try to avoid such broad strokes when painting a picture of the current landscape.... cuz it's complicated and difficult, but it's not that black and white.

I can definitely agree that not every label is like that and I didn't want it to come off as a generalization either. I'm all for the art and hopefully we never see a time when the big labels feel it's acceptable to release albums with subpar production.

 

[Kazrog]

In the pre-Internet years of the music industry, there was pretty much one avenue to success - get signed, do a record, hopefully sell a lot of units, tour, repeat. Any deviation from that equaled less success.

Now there's a lot more avenues to success, but the paths are less clear, and the success itself is much smaller in terms of gross profits. It doesn't mean that there won't be successful artists, producers, and artist/producers. The main difference is that the path to success will likely be very different for everyone for the foreseeable future. There is no more formula for success - but there are perhaps traits of success to shoot for. Study as much and as often as you can about currently successful new artists and producers, because they will have the traits worth emulating going forward. Adapt, be flexible, and let data and testing be your guide.

 

[James Murphy]

well spoken Shane, but for the "let data & testing be your guide" bit... i wouldn't suggest letting such things be your sole guideposts through the wilderness that is the modern music business. you have to have some gut instincts and do things that "feel right"... raw data never tells the whole story in any artistic endeavor, not even when it's your business... why be an artist in the first place if you only consider cold, clinical data as your signposts, even if only for your business decisions. and i'm sure that you meant for the business side of things when you typed that, and not for writing/creating/etc, but there IS some crossover of these considerations... and anyway there's a lot to be said for gut instinct, and knowing when to trust yours... even when it flies in the face of some datum or other.

 

[Kazrog]

well spoken Shane, but for the "let data & testing be your guide" bit... i wouldn't suggest letting such things be your sole guideposts through the wilderness that is the modern music business. you have to have some gut instincts and do things that "feel right"... raw data never tells the whole story in any artistic endeavor, not even when it's your business... why be an artist in the first place if you only consider cold, clinical data as your signposts, even if only for your business decisions. and i'm sure that you meant for the business side of things when you typed that, and not for writing/creating/etc, but there IS some crossover of these considerations... and anyway there's a lot to be said for gut instinct, and knowing when to trust yours... even when it flies in the face of some datum or other.

Totally agreed 100%. We're all musicians here, so considering this audience, it's easy and natural for us all to get caught up in assumptions and doing things that "feel" right - and we all tend to be idealistic to an extent - and that is an important, inherent aspect of the paradox of even attempting to do music for a living anymore. As you guessed, I was purely speaking from a business perspective.

 

[nwright]

I know what your saying but my argument is that you simply cannot/won't get albums on the scale of Darkside of the Moon from a home studio. The rooms, the time taken, and the large team of talented folks involved can't happen on no budget in a home studio even if the actual recording could. To me that's disheartening.
There are also much smaller (granted non-metal) records I love where real strings and a real Steinway in a real room take good songs and make them breathtaking.
Don't get me wrong, I have benefited tremendously from the technology but I think people too quickly disregard what we got from the old system.

I get you. To add another element, what about having everything you wrote above BUT the studio used (i.e. a nice creative and collaborative team working within the confines of a home or project studio)? With THAT model, you could potentially be eliminating a large part of the budget losing the studio costs...I know this is more common for pop artists these days.

 

[Djabthrash]

so your argument then is that labels don't care about production anymore?

well, i'll leave it at this... i have just been hired, within 4 days time, to mix two upcoming albums by new artists for a well known metal label, because they didn't like the mixes that were delivered by the guys who were orginally hired to do them. if what you are saying were strictly true, the label would have just taken the first mixes they got... they were decent after all, just not "great"... and saved the time and money... but apparently they do care enough about mixes to not do that.

Not to mention the fact that "marketing-wise" it's better to have an album "mixed by Mr Big shot (insert famous bands with great production here)" than "mixed by Mr does a good job but not famous at all", even considering the mixing quality is the same on both sides.

For a new band for instance, i know that sucks, but if i read "mixed by andy sneap" or something, i might give it a listen more than if it was "mixed by mr not famous yet". I know that kinda sucks but that's how i work, and i think i'm not the only one here

(Not to dis your work or something James)

 

[Erkan]

A side note.

Why the f*ck does this thing end at 2012?

OMG WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE - STOP WORRYING ABOUT RECORD LABELS!!