Recto/.50 Caliber Clip

[Obscura]

I just got this back from mastering so I thought I'd post my first official clip. I wasn't the engineer but assisted him on the recording session.

I used my ESP 607/607B, Racktifier and .50 Caliber amps, and a Mesa OS and your Engl. The main rhythms are one performance per side but each performance was a combination of both Boogies running at the same time with an SM57, an AKG C414 or a 421 on each cab. One pass was the Recto-->Recto cab and .50 Cal-->Engl and then switched them for the other side. There are also an enormous amount of overdubds, layered vocals, etc.

The mix is pretty dark and bottom heavy, but that's what we were looking for. I had no idea how nerve wracking this can be but here goes:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=884893

 

[KeithTidd]

the tone sounds a bit too high mid forward, i'd like to hear more body. maybe just bring them up in the mix. I have to say I'm really liking the music. It reminds me of will haven/deftones, and but darker and more brutal. Maybe alittle converge in there too.

 

[mr.L.]

Wow that combination of .50 caliber and rectifier indeed sounds very good (as you mentioned in the .50 caliber thread), very nice character to the guitar sound. I think Keith is right to a certain extend that it might be a little too high middy, it works in the mix so if you're happy with that then no problem otherwise it can probably be easily fixed by changing the balance between the mics a bit and/or a bit of eq. Like the music too by the way.

 

[Obscura]

Thanks for checking out the clip and for digging the music. I agree with you guys about it being a bit overpowering in the high mids. Unmastered it was much darker and muddier and the first go at mastering brought down the high mids but ate into the toms pretty badly. Despite the intro to this song being more snare/hi hat, most of the drumming is odd tom patterns so when the toms disappear it sounds retarded. The full song is thirteen and a half minutes long and we definitely like to pile on the overdubs.

The guy that we record with is pretty unconventional. Even though there are 3 recording studios housed in one building with an enormous amount of expensive gear, he likes to use very cheap chinese mics as overheads (MCA SP-1's). He has an amazing live room that has no parallel walls and pretty high ceilings so the drums sound really good in the room but to get more room sound he runs the drum mix through a really nice Mackie PA system and captures the ambience of the room. He can then add in as much room as he likes. Another odd thing that we did was to put a U87 in front of the Engl cab because the amps sounded amazing in the live room but no matter how much messing with mic placement, combinations of mic's etc, we just weren't quite getting it. It added in some character that I can't even describe and was used on most of the slower sections of the songs.

 

[Ola Englund]

Holy shit, those guitars are really growling... Fits the music like a glove

 

[Obscura]

Thanks, man. I think it's the first time we were able to capture what was in the room. The last time we recorded I used the classic Recto/5150 combinationa nd got a tone I liked but the Boogie/Boogie tone blew that away. As much as I like it I still want a Savage 120. I need to delete all of your Engl clips and forget I ever heard that amp!

Here's a link to tons of photos that I took during the session. You can see some mic placement and the great gear our engineer has:

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...viewPicture&friendID=17977834&albumId=2419296

 

[mr.L.]

Would love to hear some complete stuff as soon as you have some songs finished. I would definitely stick with this amp combination it suits the music very well and still has a bit of a unique sound to it. Is that picture of caliber .50 showing the actual settings you used? Seems like quite a lot of bass to me hehe

 

[Obscura]

Those are the exact settings I used. The .50 Cal can sound much more mid focused, like the Mark series and the EQ structure is all based on how high you run the treble so that the more treble you use, the less effective the other controls are. I've used one on and off for almost 15 years and those are definitely ballpark settings for an EMG loaded guitar. Maybe I'll throw up the other mastering test clip we got back. It's a bit faster and has a different feel to it.

New Clip: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=884893&songID=7343295

 

[Metaltastic]

Hey Todd, let's see - listening to Nightmare Factory Mastering Test, I agree on the upper-mid forwardness of the guitars, but I also agree that it fits perfectly. Snare sounds good, though I really have a hard time hearing the kick; sounds like the typical tone from a large diaphragm kick mic stuck in the drum, which is to say, poofy with barely any perceptible attack. Since you're already at the mastering stage, I guess it's too late now, but personally I really would've wanted 100% sample replacement (just for the kick, mind), and using a sample with more attack (not like a clicky Bergstrand kick, mind, but a kick like on Swallow the Sun's "Hope," which from a production standpoint is the closest thing I can think of). Also, the snare cuts through well but seems very dry and a bit roomy for my tastes, but at least it's plenty audible! Also, I feel all the cymbals are too low, as well as the toms; I can tell there's some cool stuff going on there, but I have a hard time hearing it unfortunately (they could also use eq'ing for some more attack IMO - once again "Hope" would be my suggestion for reference, it has some of the greatest toms I've ever heard). Check out "These Hours of Despair" on their myspace if your curious, I really recommend it both for prod. and awesome music!

Vocals sound good from a production standpoint; can't say I'm overly fond of them stylistically, but to each his own. Beyond the vox, though, I really dig the dark and creepy atmosphere of the music; it's not something I normally listen to, but in this case it's growing on me. Also, I guess it's because of all the overdubs, but I'm having a really hard time hearing much note definition in the guitars, despite the clarity from the upper mids (once again, PERFECT tone for this kinda music). But yeah, it's really the drums that are the weak point IMO; honestly, to my ears, they sound totally unmixed.

 

[Metaltastic]

Ooh, and I gotta say, I like Armed Memory more as a song, mostly cuz it actually has a riff Once again, though, the overdubbing is awesome, but perhaps a little overkill, cuz it obscures the definition of the notes too much IMO.

 

[Obscura]

Hey Marcus, Thanks for being so thorough about the clips. Most of the decisions we made, the natural kick, the density and darkness of the riffs, adnd savage vocals were conscious decisions. The music was inspired by mental illness and substance abuse and I wanted to capture the claustrophobia, paranoia, and confusion of those things. I know that in the traditional metal sense the kick should have some click and the guitars should be less dense and layered but we were trying for something a little bit different. The intro to Nightmare Factory is probably the most dense part of the whole song but there are crazy guitar overdubs everywhere, many of them pretty dissonant and probably a little bit difficult to listen to.

What I absolutely agree with you on are the toms not being loud enough and the cymbals getting lost in the mix. The guitars are more overpowering than I hoped they'd be but when we tried to balance out the mix with the first attempt at mastering, we lost a lot of the barely controlled bottom end that we worked to get in the first place. We ended up hearing the stick hit on the drums but not the resonance. I'm sure there's a middle ground between stick hit and resonance but we missed it. Our last full length was recorded and mixed by Pierre Remillard (Cryptopsy, Gorguts) and it was more of a traditional mix. The drums were replaced, the guitars more manageable, etc. and I think it sounds pretty good but I'm still trying to get whatever fucked up things that are in my head out of my guitar.

I'll have to give Swallow The Sun and check out the production values.

As soon as this thing is pressed I'll send you a copy.

Hey Marcus, I blame ALL of this on the Engl cab you sold me. You'll be hearing from my attorneys!!!

 

[Metaltastic]

Hahahaha, well I have nothing to say except that I'LL SEE YOU IN COURT!!

Now that you explain the meaning and inspiration behind the music I can definitely better understand it. I still feel the drums could've used a bit more mixing, but I also recognize and applaud you for what you were going for, and can definitely see myself digging it. I'm looking forward to hearing the final version of this one, and I seem to remember you giving me a copy of your last CD when you got the cab from me way back when, but for the life of me I haven't been able to find it since; is there a place online I could buy another copy from? (like a webstore?)

 

[Obscura]

Please steal it from a torrent site. Seriously. In 20 years of playing in the same band, selling somewhere between 15 and 20,000 albums I have received ONE check, back in the mid nineties, for $965.00. One. Split between 4 people. Seriously. If you're adept at shoplifting, have at it. If you can find the distributors warehouse, break in and steal every fucking thing that says Starkweather on it. leave them a note saying that Todd said it was okay.

Alright, I'm done. I have to see if I have a copy somewhere and if I do I'll send it to you so you don't have an mp3 version. You'll like the mix much more than this new mix.

I can't wait to take that insulation shit out of the back of the Engl. I completely forgot it was there. What a toll.

 

[Obscura]

Hey Marcus, thanks to your critique of the mix we decided to have another go at remastering, trying to balance the mix and bring back the guitars a bit to bring the drums forward. I told the mastering engineer to try to bring more stick against the drum head into the mix and clear up some of the lows/low mids. He also suggested backing off the compression a bit to open things up. I'd prefer a nice open quieter mix than a compressed mush. Evolution gave us thumbs and we can use them to turn up the c volume on our iPods.

I took the insulation out of the Engl last night and got back all of the low end thump I was missing. You're a lifesaver!