setting the perfect tempo

[steveguitarplayer]

Hi

ive never had a problem with setting tempos for a song but for some reason its harder than ever. I think im overthinking it. what I do is narrow down the tempo for parts or for a song and usually il narrow it down to 2 different BPM (example: 150BPM and 151BPM). then I will sit there and compare them to choose one of them to arrive at the perfect BPM). im finding it hard to even choose between them now. the difference between one BPM and the next one is noticeable to me. im concerned that by the time I start recording, I still wont be happy with the BPM ive set.

pretty much - I know I need to choose before time runs out and I have to give my demos to my drummer.

any tips to help me?
what do you do to make sure the tempos are right and that you are not going to regret them later? I don't want to have to use post processing to change the tempo of a part or song after the drums are recorded.

thanks
steve

 

[neptunian]

I noticed that my perception of tempo changes based on heart rate. Try listening to the same track when really relaxed versus right after some exercise. Before setting the tempo, I now take my pulse to make sure it's in a normal range.

 

[steveguitarplayer]

thankyou for your reply. Good point, I haven't thought of this before.

steve

 

[Torsis]

Personally, I believe you're overthinking it.
At 151, you're kind of fucked if you want to sync any delays to the BPM.

If your drummer can lock into either 150 or 151 consistently at will, please let me know - I have a shitload of work for him!

 

[Terminus]

Whatever works. That said, I do hate going back and changing tempos for parts that seem too fast or slow later on. In Reaper, especially.

 

[steveguitarplayer]

ok, thanks guys. the 151 BPM thing was just an example. I could have suggested any BPM. anyhow, thanks very much for your support. the replies so far do help and thanks for the honesty. as I go further with this project, I am realising that im overthinking it. at some point I just have to let go.

as far as the heart rate thing - great idea, il try it one day (when I quit smoking - probably not going to work well otherwise!)

thanks again

steve

 

[Kohugaly]

Also body temperature affects time preception greatly. Recently I've got sick and I had a fewer and when I listened to a demo we recorded week ago it sounded waaay tooo slooow - I would swear it was faster when we had recorded it.

 

[BLUElightCory]

What I usually do is have musicians play the song without the click while I tap along using tap tempo. This makes it easy to figure out their natural tendency as far as tempo goes.

I'd suggest trying it yourself - record yourself playing the song (without a click) at whatever tempo FEELS best to you, then go back and use tap tempo to find the average tempo of what you played.

 

[mva801]

What I usually do is have musicians play the song without the click while I tap along using tap tempo. This makes it easy to figure out their natural tendency as far as tempo goes.

I'd suggest trying it yourself - record yourself playing the song (without a click) at whatever tempo FEELS best to you, then go back and use tap tempo to find the average tempo of what you played.

I do this ALL the time. Usually the band will fluctuate a little (or a lot) and we'll end up trying it at one tempo. If it feels like it needs to go one way or another we'll adjust.

I find that a lot of musicians have NO CLUE how tempo works, and will tell me to set the metronome to 120 when they in fact play the song at 140. Then they proceed to not even try to pay attention to the click, and just play the song at their normal speed. Which I then have to tap out, and then ask them how they've been practicing along to the click when there's such an obvious difference, and find out that they try to practice to a click but never actually follow it, they just sort of let it play and do their own thing. Then I jump out a window.

 

[AudioGeekZine]

Music is best at 120 BPM. Proven fact and that's why every DAW defaults to 120 BPM. Change it at your own peril.

 

[Nuno Filipe]

Check my tutorial.
It's all philosophical of course, take it with a grain of salt;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xITUDAK_Nzg

 

[Nimvi]

One thing I've mentioned a few times before, and others probably have too, is that it's a good idea to listen back to your mix running in the background, somewhere in the middle of your playlist, while you are reading a book/browsing/anything that keeps your focus off the music but still allows you to hear it properly. In my experience, if there really is something wrong, it will jump out at you right away. The brain is incredibly good at picking out when something is not as it expects it to be. All you need to do is figure out a course of action against the problem once you identify it. Of course you shouldn't have to do this for every mix decision, but it can really help with those "I'm not sure if I'm changing things for better or worse" situations.

I've used this method to detect tempo problems in the past myself, and after changing them to my gut feeling, the tempo of those songs has never bothered me again.

Another thing that cannot be emphasized enough: learn to commit! Once you make a choice and it doesn't bother anyone in the first 3 listens or so, there is probably nothing wrong with it. Forget about that part and move on the the next stage

 

[Melb_shredder]

What I usually do is have musicians play the song without the click while I tap along using tap tempo. This makes it easy to figure out their natural tendency as far as tempo goes.

I'd suggest trying it yourself - record yourself playing the song (without a click) at whatever tempo FEELS best to you, then go back and use tap tempo to find the average tempo of what you played.

Yes yes yes x infinity. I do that, and then fine tune certain section for 'effect' from there!

 

[bryan_kilco]

Ugh, committing to tempo maps..... *sigh*

Our drummer and I went over our tempos for our album probably 10 times. Commit, then while trying to track drums, it's constantly "This is way too fast/slow", etc.

The heart rate and body temperature stuff posted above is intriguing. Never heard of that. And I'll assume the bit about 120 bpm being the "best" is due to us having 60 seconds a minute embedded into our brains?

 

[amarshism]

who here does half bpm changes

 

[bryan_kilco]

who here does half bpm changes

Like 0.5? Thought about it; never did it. I find the difference between 1 bpm is almost not even noticeable.

 

[mva801]

Yeah I feel if a band can't make a song sound good at a whole number tempo, odds are adding 0.5 bpm won't help. Most songs can easily be played within a one to three bpm range and sound fine. I find a lot of the time it's more that people struggle playing to a click, and just do their own thing instead. Then they blame it on the click when they keep fluctuating.

Motherfuckers need to follow the click, not expect the click to follow their inconsistencies.

 

[B36arin]

1 bpm is noticable when playing, it can really change the feel/groove of the song.

I'm REALLY sensitive to tempo, when jamming with my band I get pissed at the drummer for playing too slow if he's 1-2 bmp under where the song is supposed to be when the rest of the guys barely even notice it.

Setting tempo maps is always a bitch and I usually end up regretting a section or two per album, but I usually just commit to what feels right at the time. Your perception of the perfect tempo for a song often changes after you've got used to it and know it by heart.

 

[Potshot]

I've noticed 2 types of people coming through my studio, those that can "play to a click" ie, write a riff at 120 then change it to 100 or 140 and either way, they can play the riff at the new tempo. Then there are those that can only do so if the tempo is set perfectly where they feel it should be, which are the ones where you sit around changing the tempo in .5 increments and such. Frustration. Everyone should be in the first category.

Also there's a 3rd type of course that can't play to a click at all, then suicide.

 

[B36arin]

^You're trying a little too hard here.

It'll have its change of the tension of the song somehow, but you won't fool me with your "I notice 1 BPm when playing live" lmao

1 might be pushing it but 2 is a notable difference. And I'm not shitting you.