Seventh Circle Audio A12 Preamp Test

[Wolfeman]

Did a little short shootout between my SCA A12 and my Firestudio preamps.

Redeye->OD820->Herbie->Uberkab v30->SM57(edge of dustcap)

First clip is the Firestudio built in preamp.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2033066/Firestudio-Pre.wav

Next up is the SCA A12 at a lower gain setting. Very low gain setting to be exact, as low as I could go and still get a nominal level on the Firestudio line-in.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2033066/SCA-Low-Gain-Setting.wav

And finally, the SCA A12 on a gain setting as high as I could get it before it clipped badly.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2033066/SCA-High-Gain-Setting.wav


Well I think the A12 sounds better than the Firestudio preamps.
I can't notice a difference at all between driving the A12 hard or keeping it low.

Not a drastic difference between the preamps by far. What do you guys think? Worth the money/effort to get 'better' preamps?

 

[Ermz]

Of course it was worth it man. Even those subtle differences like the open highs, the clearer low mids - all these things add up over the course of tracking an entire record. Could you imagine the cumulative effects of the muddy character of the Firestudio over the course of 50 or more tracks being stacked on each other? The A12 is better for sure.

 

[cloy26]

There is definitely a difference between the firestudio and the A12 driven hard.

Do you know off hand if the firestudio preamps are the same they put in the firepod and fp10??

edit: after 5 listens, maybe it isn't as drastic as I thought. lol. But I do hear more high end.

 

[Everybody]

Yea the difference isnt drastic at all =/

I was expecting the contrast to be pretty noticable, do you think maybe it would have a difference on drums or something?

 

[Wolfeman]

There is definitely a difference between the firestudio and the A12 driven hard.

Do you know off hand if the firestudio preamps are the same they put in the firepod and fp10??

edit: after 5 listens, maybe it isn't as drastic as I thought. lol. But I do hear more high end.

The Firestudio has slightly different preamps than the Firepod. The FS uses Presonus 'XMAX' preamps. I think the difference lies mostly in the opamp used. I'm almost certain they both use some sort of LM series opamp though.

Yeah there is a slightly more defined high end on the A12.

Edit- Nevermind, the Firepod and Firestudio share the same preamp section. The difference is in the AD/DA converters.

 

[Wolfeman]

Yea the difference isnt drastic at all =/

I was expecting the contrast to be pretty noticable, do you think maybe it would have a difference on drums or something?

It would probably benefit a snare pretty well.

 

[JeffTD]

The A12 definitely does sound better, but yeah - shootouts like this won't show the true benefit of the pre, because where a preamp really helps is when layering multiple tracks and when dropping into the mix. You'll find that with nicer preamps, things tend to sit better and sound more 'in your face' at the same time. A good performer, mic, preamp, and converter combo almost mixes itself in a lot of cases.

 

[if6was9]

the difference probably becomes a bit more noticeable if you're using really nice A/D converters too. I'd say the difference is more noticeable on drums and vocals too

 

[cloy26]

thanks for the shoot out. cool to hear these types of things.

 

[monolithsound]

+1 on hearing more of a difference as your track count gets higher. I had the same impression you did when I first built mine, but after putting them to use in a full mix, the difference became much more apparent. Once you get to use them on drums, you'll appreciate them more.

 

[colonel kurtz]

i remember glenn doing an epic shootout a while back between his neve 1272, API, ward beck, and some other budget pre, and there didn't seem to be much of a difference

however, i'd bet the difference is MUCH more noticeable on a snare, drum OH, acoustic guitar, vocals, etc. etc. than it is on a guitar DI

 

[aortizjr]

Maybe my perception of significant is different than others. But I definitely hear a pretty big difference. You can tell it is the same general tone. But the Presonus almost sounds scooped, and muddy on the low end. Highs are washy and weird. The SCA has more midrange bite, clearer lows and more clarity overall.

Now the Presonus with a touch of EQ could do the trick to make it match. But in a mix, that extra clarity of the SCA will be key and much less of a fight. That isn't even considering the stacking effect.

The SCA stuff is awesome though. Killer pres for a stupid deal if you are handy with a soldering iron. Way easier than any other DIY project I have undertaken.

 

[AdamWathan]

Yeah the Presonus pre has a lot of extra mud going on, cool shootout. Usually I'm the first person hear to shit all over this sort of thing and tell everyone to track with ADA8000s because the boutique hype is such nonsense, but there's definitely a difference here. Did a null test and there's still quite a bit of junk left over when you flip the phase.

 

[John_C]

The difference is pretty clear to me. There's a very noticable increase in quality, if i was getting the firestudio stuff then i'd definitely end up spending quite some time fighting to dial in the extra life and transparency that the SCA gives.

The difference between SCA low and high is pretty minimal, perhaps it sounds a bit chunkier at high, but it really is a very small difference.

 

[Joshua Wickman]

That api clone sounds so much better and cleaner. The top end just opens up!

 

[Wolfeman]

I'm liking this pre more and more everyday. I'm about to send the cash for the N72. Sucks having this empty chassis, I want to fill it up!

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

This is great to hear. I may invest in a SCA setup as well.

 

[Charles J]

I'm liking this pre more and more everyday. I'm about to send the cash for the N72. Sucks having this empty chassis, I want to fill it up!

DOOO ITTTT. The N72 is crazy good bro, no joke.

Geoff, an old EE at Neve during their hey-day said that the N72 is the closest and most 'accurate' circuit layout of a 1272 that he has yet to see... =D

The sound only proves that...

 

[colonel kurtz]

yea, but he also said that he would never attempt to use the 1272 as a mic pre, as it was originally designed to be a line amplifier!