Sign of weakness or display of courage?

[TheMindzI]

thx to Soul4Raziel
I'm referring to committing suicide.. I've heard a lot of different opinions on this.. write down your comments..

 

[Duvall]

It's an act of desperation, a cry for attention, and a sign of weakness which culminates in an act that requires a LOT of courage.

 

[Jannet]

Definitely a sign of weakness. Suicide is a cop-out. I will NEVER view a suicide as heroic (which seems to be the case with Kurt Kobain fans), or anything to glorify. Not to mention it's selfish to the people you leave behind (be it parents, children, friends, other family members).

 

[Jayde]

Suicide is a sign a weakness. It's permanent solution to a temporary problem (unless your problem is that you're deformed or something and you don't want to live that way)

Take the extreme Korn fans for example: They like to convince themselves that they had a terrible past (just like Jonathan) and so they kill themselves. That's stupid. You shouldn't do that even if you CURRENTLY have a bad home life, because eventually you will grow up and leave the situation.

It's weakness because it means that you didn't have the courage to go on.

 

[Claire's Horror]

suicide has always been the selfish, easy way, but is it understandable after all? I don't think we have enough existencial answers to judge such a thing.

 

[TheMindzI]

Originally posted by Jannet
Definitely a sign of weakness. Suicide is a cop-out. I will NEVER view a suicide as heroic (which seems to be the case with Kurt Kobain fans), or anything to glorify. Not to mention it's selfish to the people you leave behind (be it parents, children, friends, other family members).

I think I'll have to agree with that. I think it's the most cowardish way to face a problem. Actually u don't even face it, u just run away. What's heroic, is living your life and make the most out of it. It needs much more courage to live..

 

[Mayh]

Originally posted by Jannet
Definitely a sign of weakness. Suicide is a cop-out. I will NEVER view a suicide as heroic (which seems to be the case with Kurt Kobain fans), or anything to glorify. Not to mention it's selfish to the people you leave behind (be it parents, children, friends, other family members).

Kurt Cobain didn´t kill himself, that evil witch what´s ´er name killed him, hired a hitman or what ever.

 

[Jannet]

Hmmm...ya mean Courtney? Hehehe..yeah, I've heard that she drove him insane. But she didn't put the gun to his head; he did. And left Courtney to fend for Francis Bean. That poor child will never know her real father because he was too damn selfish to think about her. Bastard.

 

[slingblade]

Originally posted by Jannet
Hmmm...ya mean Courtney? Hehehe..yeah, I've heard that she drove him insane. But she didn't put the gun to his head; he did. And left Courtney to fend for Francis Bean. That poor child will never know her real father because he was too damn selfish to think about her. Bastard.

i don't know......i still think that fuckin bitch had a lot more to do with it than most think.

 

[Jannet]

Hey, some people think he's walking around like Elvis, what do I know

 

[D Mullholand]

Originally posted by Duvall
It's an act of desperation, a cry for attention, and a sign of weakness which culminates in an act that requires a LOT of courage.

! I'll steal this.

 

[Jannet]

I think it takes more insanity or panic to pull the trigger than anything else. Why do people commit suicide? Fear of dying a gruesome death (perhaps on death row or being incarcerated for child rape, etc., and they don't want to face the inmates), very deep depression, self-loathing, drowning in sorrow or pity, feeling trapped, surrounded by four walls so to speak, etc. These are all psychological factors. This "I can't go on" syndrome is a mental disease. Courage is something you take pride in, not suicide. Even when faced with a life or death situation, if people do something that took "courage" to save the life of others or themselves, that's something they take pride in (or are very humble about it), and people commend them for it.

 

[Melancholia]

Originally posted by Duvall
It's an act of desperation, a cry for attention, and a sign of weakness which culminates in an act that requires a LOT of courage.

I'll steal that,too

as for the selfish part of suicide,i still remember this long thread we had here in August(??)September or sth...
I don't think it's right to call someone who commited suicide "selfish"...at least not with the strict meaning of it...
People who commit suicide tend to focus on themselves and their shitty lifes and therefore they don't think much about people around them...but the point is that they don't do so because the intend to do so,but because they are in such a state they only think about how they can make their existence less painful...

what i am trying to say (but fail it seems-i hate it when i cant express myself) is that for me the word "selfish" implies a motiv,a will to be that way.....i think suiciders don't intend to ignore others around them....

and btw,if we are toooo strict and consider suicide a selfish act: isn't it selfish to try keep someone in life when he/she has such a painful time??? i know that this isn't any sensible argument..i just mentioned it to show that such categorization can actually become some short of boomerang

i know noone wants to see people kill themselves because they don't like the life they are leading..and becomes some problems are really temporary....and neither do I...

but at least i would see someone's suicide as his/her last wish and therefore respect him/her and try to see what made him/her take this decision.....

 

[Jannet]

They may not intend to ignore those around them, but the simple fact that they don't intend to, makes them selfish! This implies that they were only thinking about themselves, and not the people that would be directly affected by their act, which makes it a very selfish thing.

Dictionary definition of selfish: n. Concerned only with oneself.

Pretty cut and dry. For example, I have a 6 year old and a husband. If I were to kill myself, wouldn't that forever change my son's life and husband's life? My son will lose his birth mother, not due to an accident, but because she took her own life! And what about my husband? He would be heartbroken and angry since he had given his heart to me and in our marriage vows it stated "for better or worse." I didn't trust my husband in working together to solve the problem. I didn't think about how my son's or husband's or my mother's, or family's, or close friends' state of mind would be affected once this act was done. What if I left 1000's of dollars in debt? (why do you think they ask for your mother's maiden name when you get a credit card? It's a guarantee that they'll be able to go after someone close to you if the debt is not paid for any reason, death included). It just doesn't disappear. And what about funeral costs? Who will pick up the tab? Sounds pretty selfish to me.

 

[Sullen Jester]

and btw,if we are toooo strict and consider suicide a selfish act: isn't it selfish to try keep someone in life when he/she has such a painful time???

It is.

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

I think it takes more insanity or panic to pull the trigger than anything else. Why do people commit suicide?

To stop the pain.

Unless you yourself have been depressed, you have no idea.

 

[Jannet]

How much pain can you be in to warrant a suicide? There are people who have been through atrocities resulting in excrutiating pain at the hand's of horrible people; there have been people who have lost legs and limbs, and have not taken a life of alcohol to "drown out their pain" (this can lead to depression) - on the contrary, they learn how to eat with their mouths and join support groups and participate in sports (special olympics) (not all, but some). A suicide-prone brain is a sick brain - needing medical attention. People have gone through the most horrible tortures and lived to tell the tale...and have become stronger because of what they've been through. Pain of the heart at times can be stronger than physical pain, but all pain can heal with time, patience, and a healthy state of mind. If the mind breaks down due to deep depression and the like, it's time to seek medical attention; not end your life. What a cop out. I respect NO one whose final wish is suicide - even people with cancer fight until the death, hoping for a cure to their disease before they die. I know this woman who got cancer. Did she stop and drown in a sea of self-pity? No. She still works, and she gets her treatments, and she lives her life in a healthy fashion, day to day. Suicide-prone brains need medical treatment - it is a disease just like any other.

 

[Melancholia]

yup,i agree with Trapped....

 

[astarte]

Originally posted by Jannet
How much pain can you be in to warrant a suicide? There are people who have been through atrocities at the hand's of horrible people; there have been people who have lost legs and limbs, and have not taken a life of alcohol to "drown out their pain" - on the contrary, they learn how to eat with their mouths and join support groups and participate in sports (not all, but some). A suicide-prone brain is a sick brain - needing medical attention. People have gone through the most horrible tortures and lived to tell the tale...and have become stronger because of what they've been through. Pain of the heart at times can be stronger than physical pain, but all pain can heal with time, patience, and a healthy state of mind. If the mind breaks down due to deep depression and the like, it's time to seek medical attention; not end your life. What a cop out. I respect NO one whose final wish is suicide - even people with cancer fight until the death, hoping for a cure to their disease before they die. I know this woman who got cancer. Did she stop and drown in a sea of self-pity? No. She still works, and she gets her treatments, and she lives her life in a healthy fashion, day to day. Suicide-prone brains need medical treatment - it is a disease just like any other.

it's not about what you go through but how you deal with it. everybody has different levels of sensitivity, what doesn't bother you may destroy another.

edit: fixed something.

 

[Melancholia]

Originally posted by Jannet
I respect NO one whose final wish is suicide - even people with cancer fight until the death, hoping for a cure to their disease before they die. I know this woman who got cancer. Did she stop and drown in a sea of self-pity? No. She still works, and she gets her treatments, and she lives her life in a healthy fashion, day to day. Suicide-prone brains need their medical treatment - it is a disease just like any other.

to keep it brief:
I think you tend to forget something very significant:
Not all people are the same....thus not everybody can be as brave as the lady you mentioned.. does this make them worthless???? no way...
and what about people who don't have access to "help"??
and is medical treatment the only cure?? I really doubt it...
anti-depressants aren't always the super solutions from what i've read at least...