silent kickdrum recording (mesh-head + trigger)

[KHE]

hi guys

i was thinking about recording kickdrums with a mesh-head and a piezo-trigger instead of the miced shell. i think editing will become much faster and cleaner if i don't have to deal with the kick-bleed into the overheads/room during fast (and crappy) played parts.

do you have any experiences with mesh-heads?
how does playing the meshhead feel compared to a regular skin?
do they work well with regular piezo-triggers? (i use Roland Triggers for the skins usually, no problems with false triggers, but i have no idea how the mesh head reacts)

or is anyone using midi-kick-pads instead of meshheads? if yes, whats the advantage?

thanks!

 

[drew_drummer]

For the kind of music you're likely doing (Metal I'm guessing??) a midi-kick-pad would be fine. Not sure about a mesh head. Might give too much bounce for a kick drum??

 

[mickrich]

What I have been doing lately (*if the drummer is good) is recording the whole kit then just keeping the kicks.
Next, take the beaters off the kicks and get the drummer to record the song again.
Now I have kicks on their own and, crucially, "hands" with no kicks.
This makes editing really easy because there is no kick in the overheads and room so I don't need to worry about phase or flamming or anything.
Better still, I don't need to high pass the overheads or room to get rid of kick rumble so the snare and toms sound great in the room mics.
Once tracked and edited, I am converting the kick to midi using logic's "drum replacement" function and sending to drum designer.
Studio felt kick drum is really good, especially the room sound and I mix this with my regular slate sounds and the kick sounds part of the kit.
This is working out really well and editing has sped up considerably and it sounds much cleaner and punchier.

I have found that the "click" from a midi pad in the overheads is actually harder to deal with than an actual drum.

 

[KHE]

thanks for your opinions!

i would use this setup for fast metal, on simple rockmusic i like the kick in the overheads/room. and in these styles of music, drummers usually don't overestimate themself all the time

intresting method mickrich, maybe i give it a try if i find a drummer who is able to do it...

i checked Kevin Talleys "crystal mountain" drum-tracks which are recorded with a silent kick. there is very very little bleed audible (mainly in the snare-bottom track). So i just sent him a mail asking what he used, hopefully he will answer!

cheers!

 

[Heabow]

What I did once is to fill the shell with pillows so the kick does not sound at all (well, almost) then I did place an SM57 which was the only mic available at the moment. And it worked great, almost no bleed in the OHs and a super easy kick to replace.

+ same feel for the drummer and no need to play the song twice, no need to play without the beaters which is not that easy.......

 

[JeffTD]

What I have been doing lately (*if the drummer is good) is recording the whole kit then just keeping the kicks.
Next, take the beaters off the kicks and get the drummer to record the song again.
Now I have kicks on their own and, crucially, "hands" with no kicks.
This makes editing really easy because there is no kick in the overheads and room so I don't need to worry about phase or flamming or anything.
Better still, I don't need to high pass the overheads or room to get rid of kick rumble so the snare and toms sound great in the room mics.
Once tracked and edited, I am converting the kick to midi using logic's "drum replacement" function and sending to drum designer.
Studio felt kick drum is really good, especially the room sound and I mix this with my regular slate sounds and the kick sounds part of the kit.
This is working out really well and editing has sped up considerably and it sounds much cleaner and punchier.

I have found that the "click" from a midi pad in the overheads is actually harder to deal with than an actual drum.

I used to do basically this but not have him track the song beforehand. Remove beaters, tell him not to play on the faster kick stuff (the kick pedal being there is reall only for him to hit it when he needs a placebo placeholder in fills and stuff) and then either do a once-through of just the kick or straight-up program the kick afterwards. Works out really well.

 

[chdrummer]

Same thing basically as jeff said. Just track with no beaters and program the kick. Way faster than having to edit a shitty drummers feet!

 

[KHE]

just got feedback from Kevin, he used a mesh head, trigger and felt-beater.
will try it and post my impressions about it later (couple weeks i guess)

thanks!

 

[Heabow]

I used to do basically this but not have him track the song beforehand. Remove beaters, tell him not to play on the faster kick stuff (the kick pedal being there is reall only for him to hit it when he needs a placebo placeholder in fills and stuff) and then either do a once-through of just the kick or straight-up program the kick afterwards. Works out really well.

I did program fast kick parts a few times because the drummers were able to play properly their shit but I don't like much this technique as there's no kick in the room mics during these parts. Maybe I don't know how to fix this but what I did was triggering kick room samples and not mixed room mics as high as I would do normally. But apart from that, it works fine indeed.