Singing in the control room!!

[SentencedToBurn]

alright so there are a bunch of threads throughout these parts on singing with the monitors blaring as opposed to headphones. I'm recording an album right now and want to try this method. The Shure sm58 seems to be the mic everyone talks about when speaking about the monitor method. But... im assuming the shure sm7b is probably the better choice if you have the money, correct? I was going to buy a 7b for this, but if the 58 (which i already have) achieves everything the 7b can in this method, is it worth it? Shouldnt the 7b have better cancellation?

Also, how do you reverse the phase of one of the monitors in Logic? Im using Logic 9 with a presonus fp10 for my interface.

 

[plague_rider]

Dude if you have the money for a 7b DO IT!!

 

[SentencedToBurn]

yea thats what i figured. ha. Is the cancellation that good on the 7b that i wouldnt even have to phase invert one of the speakers, or should i still do it?

And ill answer my own question for the phase inverse thing by saying i should probably put a plug on the master bus with a phase switch, right? unless there is a better way....

 

[sys_fail_you]

The Shure sm58 seems to be the mic everyone talks about when speaking about the monitor method. But... im assuming the shure sm7b is probably the better choice if you have the money, correct?

use your ears. the sm7 or it's a/b variants are great mics and may reject more than your 58, but that doesn't mean that it sounds best or fits the source. bleed can be great! do a few performances of the same verse or so on each mic so you can get better depiction of what the mics are doing and not just listening to the difference in performance. listen to the tracks in the mix. i'd probably pick an SM7 more in this application, but i'd still listen to both. quick note- 57s and 58s are awesome mics in the right pre. i'd always preferred to use other mics where these two would be frequently used. then i picked up some GR MP500nv's. the pre itself is great, but the important thing isn't the pre it's a function on the pre: switchable impedance. by my ears, most dynamics sound better operating at a lower impedance than most pre's operate at by design. any pre with variable or switchable impedance can make your dynamics kick more ass than expected.

Also, how do you reverse the phase of one of the monitors in Logic? Im using Logic 9 with a presonus fp10 for my interface.

first, it's not a phase button, it's a polarity button. phase is a place in time/space, whereas polarity is an inversion of the signal (e.g wave+ to wave-) which can put it more in phase with another source.

i'm a PTLE8 user, but i'd bet that logic has STEREO and MULTIPLE-MONO variants of it's plugs. use a multiple-mono plug on your mixbuss (make sure that each side is independently controlled/unlinked) and flip the polarity on one side.

you can also save dsp by getting an extra TRS or XLR cable (depending on your gear) to go between your interface and your monitor and rewiring the + and - on one side. DON"T FORGET TO MARK IT, and when your done put the normal cable back in it's place. going the route of the cable, you may find that one of your monitors was - polarity from the other this whole time. if you can't hear the difference, + polarity the cone pushes out on bass, - polarity the cone sucks in on bass.

 

[SentencedToBurn]

alright lol. well thank you for the response sys. i have a degree in audio design so i did know all of that, but i was just using common language. kick ass for your second post.
...and for the difference between the 7b and 58, i was mostly just talking about cancellation.

 

[BLUElightCory]

The polar patterns for both mics are VERY close; the SM7 is slightly tighter/flatter in the way it rejects sound. You could use either mic in the control room; it'd still be best to flip polarity on one monitor for maximum rejection.

 

[sys_fail_you]

alright lol. well thank you for the response sys. i have a degree in audio design so i did know all of that, but i was just using common language. kick ass for your second post.
...and for the difference between the 7b and 58, i was mostly just talking about cancellation.

no prob.

i didn't assume inexperience on your part, i just wanted to positively contribute to the community at-large. some will learn from it, and then one day [lights kick on with angelic music fluttering, now speaking in the hero voice] there will be confusion no more on what to call that *$#@ing button.

 

[Masticore]

didnt hetfield sing the black album in a control room?

 

[Skinny Viking]

no prob.

i didn't assume inexperience on your part, i just wanted to positively contribute to the community at-large. some will learn from it, and then one day [lights kick on with angelic music fluttering, now speaking in the hero voice] there will be confusion no more on what to call that *$#@ing button.

That really was a great post dude

 

[sys_fail_you]

didnt hetfield sing the black album in a control room?

on an sm7, no less. if i recall correctly, he's even using it in their reality tv movie about therapy.

@skinnyviking: just glad to help.

 

[lolzgreg]

If it gets the best performance from the singer, do it. If it sounds best do it. Just do what works and sounds best, and forget about anything else

 

[Suicide_As_Alibi]

didnt hetfield sing the black album in a control room?

On the "Classic Albums: Metallica" thing he's shown doing vocals in a booth several times, and not once is he shown in the control room with a mic.

Steve

 

[SentencedToBurn]

On the "Classic Albums: Metallica" thing he's shown doing vocals in a booth several times, and not once is he shown in the control room with a mic.

Steve

yes but he does sing with the 7b in the control room for st anger, which is like the same album right??? lol

 

[16S]

can you explain the polarity technique: is it so that when the vox are played back in the mix and track bleed from the monitors is cancelled out?

 

[BLUElightCory]

can you explain the polarity technique: is it so that when the vox are played back in the mix and track bleed from the monitors is cancelled out?

Yup.

 

[guitar08man]

Why not reverse the phase of the vocals after they have been recorded? Doesn't the same end result occur?

Seems like this would be easier.

 

[BLUElightCory]

Why not reverse the phase of the vocals after they have been recorded? Doesn't the same end result occur?

Seems like this would be easier.

No, the idea is that you flip the phase on one of two monitors that are symmetrically placed so that they're bleeding into the vocal mic equally. When you flip the phase on one of them, they'll effectively cancel out at the mic, but the singer will still be able to hear them.

 

[B36arin]

If you want to flip the polarity of one of the sides of the master bus the easiest way to do it is to use the gain plugin, which is in the utility folder. The stereo version of the plugin has a polarity flip button for both sides of the stereo channel.

 

[Jormyn]

I've got the tracks for Enter Sandman from one of the Guitar Hero/Rock Band games, and soloing the vocals makes it really obvious that they were, indeed, recorded in the control room.

Sadly, my own experiments with the technique have thus far failed to pan out, but it's a great idea for people (like me) who can't sing comfortably with a pair of headphones on.

 

[PhilR]

For my bands EP we cut the vocals with an SM58 in front of a PA system! For load/scream vox the bleed isn't really as much of an issue as you'd think.