Vocals tracked in the control room w/o headphones- reducing bleed?

[Exocaster]

This isn't my normal way of working at all, so I apologize for the n00balicious question- it's not something that comes up often!

I do seem to recall there's a bit of a trick here to minimize the effect of the bleed though, something phase-related?

Obviously I'm gonna do manual edits on the vocal here! It's a pretty dynamic performance, and the singer knows how to work her mic, but likes the handheld with monitors blasting. Thankfully she stood off-axis a fair distance away without even being asked- it's nice to work with people who know what they're doing even if they're doing it in an inconvenient way.

Anything to cut down the bleed outside of gating/expansion/edits, though... Would be nice. Any input here is greatly appreciated.

 

[Cryo114]

I think i heard it as a bob rock thing on the black album, set up the singers moniters (once you have the really final (other than vox) mix) just have the moniters set up in equal distance from the mic and then flip the phase in the mix. That will remove the sound that matches the original backing track in the mix.

I am pretty drunk though, so sorry if i gave you shitty advice.

 

[Exocaster]

That's what I was thinking of, exactly down to the source (Bob Rock). I didn't remember if there was a duplicate of the track with the phase flipped involved though. Thank you!

I have a tendency to mix drunk, actually, because it makes me less focused on technical minutiae and want to listen to things over and over and over and over and over again. Though right now I'm quaffing delicious delicious coffee!

 

[Cryo114]

I'm a noob in every way (except for having a brain that's empty enough to remember shit) so your very welcome!

if this is infact good advice lol

I imagine another copy of the backing track mixed with the vox track might compensate for the phase reversal. But thats too complicated for my brain to handle right now. But send a copy of the backing to a bus mixed with the vox track if you need the volume to really get to a totally equaly phase reversal level.

 

[006]

So, basically, you can apply an effect to the master bus that lets you flip the phase, such as Sonalksis FreeG, while tracking the vocals - and then turn that off and flip the phase on the vocal track when you go to mix/listen back?

 

[AudioGeekZine]

sum the mix to mono, send it out to two speakers with one phase reversed. Equilateral triangle with the mic as the third point. As you can imagine this will sound pretty fucked up for the performer.

Why not try a few different types of headphones first like some good in-ears?
Do the monitors have to blast? Take care of your ears man.

 

[P-E]

Even with bleed if it's well mixed and cut it's not always that bad.

Check out that band : https://dl.dropbox.com/u/326587/SliceTheCakeOnlinePreview/index.html
Gareth on here tracked the vocals with monitors blasting and with a handheld 57.

 

[JayB]

Race of Roses is so sick

 

[006]

I generally like to get the vocalist (screamers/growlers/whathaveyou) in the room with me with the monitors blaring to get them into the vibe and shit - it really makes a difference. I end up having to edit the fuck out of the vocals so that I'm not having to use a gate any more and my vocal chain is only seeing a clean, edited vocal source. However, sometimes you can hear background noise (monitors) in the tracks, during the vocals, when they go through compression, compression again, then limiting Although it is pretty faint and realistically you can't tell at all in the mix, I would still like to minimize it as much as possible.

I have a plug that actually flips the left or right channel's phase for you. If put on the 2bus and say the right channel is flipped, would this be another way of doing it instead of wiring my monitor cable backwards just for tracking vocals?

 

[Melodeath]

Taken from a post of mine I made just over a year ago:

Use a cardioid mic. Put it in the "sweet spot" of normal stereo listening, but angled towards the vocalist, not the speakers. Reverse the phase of one speaker. AKA the equilateral triangle, with vocalist at a point.

Or, don't reverse the phase of one speaker, but record a separate take of just bleed (vocalist stand in the same place, don't touch any faders, etc). Then, reverse the phase in your DAW on the recorded bleed. Helps sometimes too if you take out the highs with an EQ prior to recording the vocals and bleed (highs are harder to get to cancel if there are reflections)

 

[cloy26]

Even with bleed if it's well mixed and cut it's not always that bad.
Gareth on here tracked the vocals with monitors blasting and with a handheld 57.

I've ditched the at4040 for the past few months and resorted to a 57 with a pop filter on the end. My vocals have never sat in the mix better. :Spin:

 

[Trevoire520]

Taken from a post of mine I made just over a year ago:

Use a cardioid mic. Put it in the "sweet spot" of normal stereo listening, but angled towards the vocalist, not the speakers. Reverse the phase of one speaker. AKA the equilateral triangle, with vocalist at a point.

Or, don't reverse the phase of one speaker, but record a separate take of just bleed (vocalist stand in the same place, don't touch any faders, etc). Then, reverse the phase in your DAW on the recorded bleed. Helps sometimes too if you take out the highs with an EQ prior to recording the vocals and bleed (highs are harder to get to cancel if there are reflections)

^This.

Also, hanging a blanket behind the singer can help to reduce reflections coming from behind them that will get into the front of the mic.

 

[joeymusicguy]

just use headphones? lol...

thats what i do

 

[cloy26]

will it make my mixes sound more like yours?

 

[greyskull]

haha i used a neve desk the other day that actually had a button for this purpose.. mental.

 

[zackpennington]

just use headphones? lol...

thats what i do

You got that technique from me though.