Single mother of 2 fined $220,000 for file-sharing Opeth

[Blind Guardian]

yeah but another reason that i dont download music is that if everything is available,it loses it´s charm in a way.i cant even begin to imagine how exciting it must have been in the 70´s waiting for a new deep purple album and just go to the record store every day

 

[the_drip]

while I don't fully advocate downloading music for free, I have no problem with people downloading it in order to find new bands they like. But imo, 220,000 dollars for 24 songs is REALLY steep. That's maybe...2 albums worth of music they're nailing her for. so in stores that's roughly 2 CDs...30 bucks. or .99 cents per song on itunes. Where the hell do they come up with such an incredibly high fine? ..Those lawyers must've been expensive.

 

[themaster]

File sharing should be stopped, its hard enough for smaller bands to make a living because the number of albums bought has dropped in all types of music.
In this case the cost to the individual is excessivly high but whichever way you look at it she shouldnt have taken part in downloading or file sharing.
I agree opeth probably will see nothing from this, perhapse record companies should allow the free download of a couple of taster tracks from an album at redused fidelity, if you like the tracks then buying the album is a safer bet, either that or if you paid a nominal fee to download a couple of tracks then you would be given the opportunity to purchase the album at a reduced rate if you liked them.

if artists and record companies stop making enough money to reord good sounding albums and to support extensive touring particually when trying to break a new band then the whole sysytem will fail we will all be the poorer for this.

i take some pride in knowing ive purchased all the albums i own and the fact that the artists have in a small way benifited, my reward is some more great music when they record a new album or some good memeories when they can tour in my area rather than having to travel hundreds of miles to see them.

have a good weekend ya all

 

[Opeth Leaves]

Okey, that's an incredibly high fine for sharing just 24 files. Talk about greedy companies...

 

[all_sins_undone]

thank god i live in canada, i think i download 24 songs an hour tbh

 

[Shemsu'Hor]

thank god i live in canada, i think i download 24 songs an hour tbh

I probably have that beat, lol.

The thing is that the record industry says that cd sales are declining and they're blaming it on downloading, but it's not downloading it's the fact that they charge way too much for a fucking cd. Think of it this way, people aren't going to buy cd's when they cost so much, would it be better for them to just not buy the cd and never hear a band or would it be better for them to download a couple songs and start to like the band then decide it's worth it to buy the cd or go to a concert or whatever. I almost always go buy a cd from a band I like after downloading some songs, if I don't like the band I don't buy the cd and I stop downloading their music. If anything it should encourage bands to NOT make shitty music so people will actually buy their stuff.

 

[Lethal01]

So on this subject, how many here have actually had an Opeth album on their computer without owning it at that point? How many in fact started listening to Opeth from downloaded mp3's? I know I started out listening to a pirated Blackwater Park as a custom station in GTA3.
How many now own all their albums? I know I do. Along with vinyls. And the dvd.
That's not saying piracy is good, just arguing the one side of it.

 

[Tash]

I think it's a bit of a vicious circle. When people download, the demand for the real thing goes down, therefore prices per unit go up, and then people can't afford to buy as much as they did before, so they download more...etc, etc.

 

[anita_job]

The record company picked this lady because they know she'll have a hard time getting the money for a legal defense. I don't see them suing the sons and daughters of the rich who go to Ivy League schools. Why? Because their parents could put tens of thousands into their legal defense (assuming they aren't lawyers themselves). They're trying to make an example of her. I remember a story that they sued a 9 year old using Kazaa a few years back. Why haven't they sued Kazaa, Rapidshare, and Megaupload out of existence? Probably because those companies could put up the money to fight it in the courts.

Fuck these record companies. They think that suing a few thousand people will stop millions (or billions) of illegal downloads? That's their grand plan to rescue the music industry from collapse? That's like using a teaspoon to get the water out of the Titanic.

I always buy the CDs I download if they are good. I download stuff to check it out, see if it's any good. How many times do you hear about a band but never hear their stuff on the (corporate controlled) radio, like Opeth?

 

[Ben_jamin]

well I like to buy the albums because of the ARTWORK....personally Cd's are the best we can go in how we put out music. If it's about the art. Downloading, I could care less about it. Yes the prices are damn expensive, especially for like a double disc from a famous band. fuckin like 30 bucks. Thats rediculous.

I also think that it was messed up that roadrunner would say that it was opeth music...I think they could care less, as long as they get to continue to make great music.

 

[ufomagnet]

So on this subject, how many here have actually had an Opeth album on their computer without owning it at that point? How many in fact started listening to Opeth from downloaded mp3's?

I sure did. Downloaded a huge collection of metal mp3s back in 2001, heard The Drapery Falls and the song just blew my mind. Since then I've bought all CDs and Lamentations, seen them live seven times and helped the band with live photos for the Ghost Reveries Ltd edition and the upcoming CD/DVDs.

Sue me.

 

[Lethe78]

If it wasn't for illegal file sharing, I wouldn't even know of Opeth. Or Dark Tranquillity, Tristania, Katatonia, Edge of Sanity, or a whole host of other cool bands. I subsequently bought the cds I like (which were most of them), because I like the liner notes, the original cd, etc.

However, I have to say that if my music was ever being traded, no matter how much or little money I made, I would be thrilled that people want to listen to what I have to express.

But whatever, to each his own.

 

[Weakness]

I just saw this on the news. Trip out. They mentioned Opeth here in the SF Bay Area on our news channel.

 

[Tubbs]

However, I have to say that if my music was ever being traded, no matter how much or little money I made, I would be thrilled that people want to listen to what I have to express.

Exactly what I think.

The music industry makes me sick every time I hear about stuff like this... I've given up all hope trying to respect them for what they're doing because now they're doing it just for the sake of being bullies. I've never liked the whole anti-piracy deal in the first place... I can go on and on about this subject but I might be beaten up by the RIAA in a back alley somewhere.

Lmao, update. The music industry won the case, apparently. Wonderful. Although the news says it was around 1,700 songs, a bit more than 24. Still...

 

[SethCohen]

well the record companies are ASSHOLES for setting an example out of OPETH in this case. They want to show how they can take all the royalties and sue the lady, even though OPETH songs were illegally shared. I didn't hear the lady download and "RIAA" albums, so why does record companies get all the money? Give most of the 220,000 to OPETH

 

[MixGrafix]

Any publicity is good publicity.

 

[soundave]

Let's hope the Radiohead experiment works.

It's all well and good to be all existential and say that no one can "own" music, but the truth is that it DOES cost money to make music. Touring is certainly one way to recoup expenses (and then some), but I have a hard time imagining a world where no one has to pay to acquire the artistic works of others. So, what are we saying, then? That albums will be made for the express purpose of getting people to go to live shows? A kind of advertisement? I can only imagine that record companies would interfere with recording even more than they already do. I fear for the art of record-making if that happens.

When I was a kid, I borrowed tapes from my friends to see what I should buy. Sometimes I dubbed them, but the quality always sucked. If I liked a band, I went out and got the tape. That feels different than downloading. And my buddy wasn't giving the tape to 2,000 people. Maybe a couple of my other friends, tops.

I do think music is overpriced. Particularly if you stick to buying physical CD's as opposed to iTunes, eMusic, and other such services. That's what's caused me to forgo the album art and the slighlty better bitrate of CD's. My hunger for new music is greater than my budget. I don't mind the compromise all that much.

For what it's worth, here's producer Steve Albini's take on the record industry:

"These figures are representative of amounts that appear in record contracts daily. There's no need to skew the figures to make the scenario look bad, since real-life examples more than abound.



Advance: $ 250,000
Manager's cut: $ 37,500
Legal fees: $ 10,000
Recording Budget: $ 150,000
Producer's advance: $ 50,000
Studio fee: $ 52,500
Drum Amp, Mic and Phase "Doctors": $ 3,000
Recording tape: $ 8,000
Equipment rental: $ 5,000
Cartage and Transportation: $ 5,000
Lodgings while in studio: $ 10,000
Catering: $ 3,000
Mastering: $ 10,000
Tape copies, reference CDs, shipping tapes, misc. expenses: $ 2,000
Video budget: $ 30,000
Cameras: $ 8,000
Crew: $ 5,000
Processing and transfers: $ 3,000
Off-line: $ 2,000
On-line editing: $ 3,000
Catering: $ 1,000
Stage and construction: $ 3,000
Copies, couriers, transportation: $ 2,000
Director's fee: $ 3,000
Album Artwork: $ 5,000
Promotional photo shoot and duplication: $ 2,000
Band fund: $ 15,000
New fancy professional drum kit: $ 5,000
New fancy professional guitars [2]: $ 3,000
New fancy professional guitar amp rigs [2]: $ 4,000
New fancy potato-shaped bass guitar: $ 1,000
New fancy rack of lights bass amp: $ 1,000
Rehearsal space rental: $ 500
Big blowout party for their friends: $ 500
Tour expense [5 weeks]: $ 50,875
Bus: $ 25,000
Crew [3]: $ 7,500
Food and per diems: $ 7,875
Fuel: $ 3,000
Consumable supplies: $ 3,500
Wardrobe: $ 1,000
Promotion: $ 3,000
Tour gross income: $ 50,000
Agent's cut: $ 7,500
Manager's cut: $ 7,500
Merchandising advance: $ 20,000
Manager's cut: $ 3,000
Lawyer's fee: $ 1,000
Publishing advance: $ 20,000
Manager's cut: $ 3,000
Lawyer's fee: $ 1,000
Record sales: 250,000 @ $12 =
$3,000,000
Gross retail revenue Royalty: [13% of 90% of retail]:
$ 351,000
Less advance: $ 250,000
Producer's points: [3% less $50,000 advance]:
$ 40,000
Promotional budget: $ 25,000
Recoupable buyout from previous label: $ 50,000
Net royalty: $ -14,000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Record company income:


Record wholesale price: $6.50 x 250,000 =
$1,625,000 gross income
Artist Royalties: $ 351,000
Deficit from royalties: $ 14,000
Manufacturing, packaging and distribution: @ $2.20 per record: $ 550,000
Gross profit: $ 7l0,000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Balance Sheet: This is how much each player got paid at the end of the game.


Record company: $ 710,000
Producer: $ 90,000
Manager: $ 51,000
Studio: $ 52,500
Previous label: $ 50,000
Agent: $ 7,500
Lawyer: $ 12,000
Band member net income each: $ 4,031.25



The band is now 1/4 of the way through its contract, has made the music industry more than 3 million dollars richer, but is in the hole $14,000 on royalties. The band members have each earned about 1/3 as much as they would working at a 7-11, but they got to ride in a tour bus for a month. The next album will be about the same, except that the record company will insist they spend more time and money on it. Since the previous one never "recouped," the band will have no leverage, and will oblige. The next tour will be about the same, except the merchandising advance will have already been paid, and the band, strangely enough, won't have earned any royalties from their T-shirts yet. Maybe the T-shirt guys have figured out how to count money like record company guys."

BTW, this is a few years old, so I'm sure we can adjust for inflation. I'm all for cutting record companies out of the loop. But how do bands get the word out about their music? How do they get tours together? How do they get the initial money to record?

 

[Lethal01]

I bought Radioheads latest "experiment" aswell, it felt like a worthy cause. (And some great music, obviously) But for now, that kind of gamble is only for the already established artists or the record companies. At least when we are talking major releases like this one. I mean look at the figures above, it's not like most of them magically disappear when you ditch the record company. Imagine just the legal and accounting nightmare of an international release of this huge magnitude, even if it is online. (come to think of it, that probably only makes it worse)
// Devils Advocate #2

 

[Syd07]

I found Opeth by downloading some of their songs. Then i went and bought all the albums and Lamentations. I found Porcupine Tree the same way...

 

[Shemsu'Hor]

Just think about where the underground metal scene would be today if it weren't for people trading music, it'd be virtually non-existent. In the old days it was tape trading(which is pretty much the same thing as downloading nowadays and you never heard about tape traders getting the shit sued outta them by the RIAA)If it wasn't for people spreading the music around a lot of bands that have been so important to metal might not have been able to do what they love, nobody would know about them. I think it's more apparent in metal than any other genre of music that the fans are rabidly loyal to the music and want to see it continue to grow and be awesome. So if I can get 10 people into a band by downloading some of their stuff then fuck yeah I'm gonna do it, it's for the benefit of the band. Oh and one last thing, out of all the people I know who download music it's always the metalheads who actually go out and buy the cds afterwards, what does that tell ya?