So I started listening to the song "The Beginning Is the end is th Beginning". Ok so ive never listened to them before this song, and Im wondering if there other stuff is like that...any ideas?
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smashing Pumpkins
- Thread starter panzerfaust666
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BloodSword
Member
Smashing Pumkins is solely responsible for my tuning in to Country radio in the mid 90's. With the influx of grunge and what became called post grunge taking over the air waves of edgier radio stations that once played commercial metal, I became a bit depressed because I didnt get the lower level of musicianship and felt like metal had died. So one day I asked a young guy in the music store I did business with, what was "in"... the latest thing younger people were into. He suggested I give "Smashing Pumkins" a try. I bought a cassette and Im telling you I gave that thing a chance, playing it over and over to try to "get it". It was all unrestrained noise to me, ride cymbals became constantly crashed on, palm muteing had gone to hard strumming of full chords under massive distortion, I just couldnt take it anymore. I eventually threw out my Smashing Pumkins and began tuning into country radio when I was tired of my old cassettes. One thing country musicians have is integrity, I found little in the rock music of the early/mid 90's.
Satanstoenail
My Larpstyle determines my Derpstyle
No, their older stuff was decent alternative rock with annoying vocals as opposed to film soundtrack rock with annoying vocals.
Check out "Quiet" off Siamese Dream:
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Einherjar86
Active Member
v2kv
Member
Couldn't agree with you more. I've tried to get into this band numerous times, and even more I've tried to just understand what's so good about them, but I've given up.
I used to listen to them. They don't have an albums in the vein of "The End is the Beginning is the End" but you may like some of their darker songs like:
The Everlasting Gaze, Ava Adore, Zero but maybe also Eye, Daphne Descends, Love, Heavy Metal Machine, Pug, Bullet With Butterfly Wings, Bodies.
Machina was their most experimental, industrial-influenced album but aside from a couple songs it wasn't very good last I recall. Adore I enjoyed some of, it was their darker but depressing album. Mellon Collie is their most well-known album which has some good stuff. Their first couple albums feature a very straight-forward 90's alternative rock sound. You might be best off checking out their 'greatest hits' compilation Rotten Apples if you're not too familiar with them.
The Everlasting Gaze, Ava Adore, Zero but maybe also Eye, Daphne Descends, Love, Heavy Metal Machine, Pug, Bullet With Butterfly Wings, Bodies.
Machina was their most experimental, industrial-influenced album but aside from a couple songs it wasn't very good last I recall. Adore I enjoyed some of, it was their darker but depressing album. Mellon Collie is their most well-known album which has some good stuff. Their first couple albums feature a very straight-forward 90's alternative rock sound. You might be best off checking out their 'greatest hits' compilation Rotten Apples if you're not too familiar with them.
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Dak
mentat
Before I really got into metal I loved SP, now I have to be in the mood for them, but there really are some good songs in their discography.
Corgan's voice is kind of a love it or hate it thing though.
Rotten Apples is a really good collection.
Corgan's voice is kind of a love it or hate it thing though.
Rotten Apples is a really good collection.
Orion Crystal Ice
Rider of the Astral Fire
BloodSword
Member
Is their drummers's name Jimmy Chamberlain? If it's the same cat, he did a jazz album awhile ago, and it was'nt bad. I can't remember the title of the album, so I guess it didn't leave too much of an impression.
Satanstoenail
My Larpstyle determines my Derpstyle
Yeah. He's a great drummer. Almost fucked it all up with a smack addiction though.
I'm saying this without flaming you though you might take it as such whenever i reply to your posts. But you seem to say that when it's any music with some "extremes" played in the music be it Grunge, Punk,Black/Death/Doom metal etc. therefor your opinion of such music is biased. You simply do not like extreme music. As for the album you bought, i can't really make an opinion of it because you did not tell us which album you bought/heard. Perhaps it is just one of their more harsher albums. If you prefer songs not as harsh then I recommend these:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHUd896Sur0&feature=related[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsZYqaSc4cU&feature=related[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7Cr2MoWpV0&feature=related[/ame]
Personally since the early 90's I think country has "sold out" and is nothing compared to old country like Patsy Cline, Hank Williams, Loretta Lynn etc...
The ones I highly recommend over others are:
1. Siamese Dreams
2. Melon Collie
3. Adore
4. Gish
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I have some amusement over that term "extreme" being applied in areas it is. Most of it I would say only qualifies under extreme as extremely horrible.
It was Siamese Dream which Im thinking was their first or at least their "breakthrough". There was some things in there as in occasional measures or hooks I could relate too but otherwise I just didnt think it was that great, nothing that to me should have had such a changing impact on music and in a way I was right because it was a fairly short lived period and the more heavier popular music headed back toward solid articulated riffs. His voice is aggrevating as well so that was part of it. We are going back somewhere around 15 years so I cant remember enough to elaborate other than it mostly sounded like noise.
I havent listened to much country since the mid nineties, for awhile now, since boy and girl groups became a trend some of it has been pretty lame. I dont go for the sellout thing same as I dont fall for reinventing the word extreme. You simply had a younger generation that listened to a wider variety of music and brought rock influences into the picture... not pop like there seems to be alot of today. If is all still sounded like Buck Owens it would be under criticism as well. It had to evolve like any other music.
What I meant by integrity was the multiple instruments in the songs and the fact that you could distinguish every note every player was playing and everyone was playing something different. If you wanted to hear a good guitar player on the radio in the mid 90's country radio was the only place you could find one besides the classic stations that were still playing the same old. There was also some really great story tellers around that time, clever lyrics and many were highly influenced by Hank, Patsy and Loretta
Countrys no stranger to commercialism, I remember during the late 60's and 70's when much of it was orchestrated with string sections and most of it sounded the same. Really nothing new there
It was Siamese Dream which Im thinking was their first or at least their "breakthrough". There was some things in there as in occasional measures or hooks I could relate too but otherwise I just didnt think it was that great, nothing that to me should have had such a changing impact on music and in a way I was right because it was a fairly short lived period and the more heavier popular music headed back toward solid articulated riffs. His voice is aggrevating as well so that was part of it. We are going back somewhere around 15 years so I cant remember enough to elaborate other than it mostly sounded like noise.
I havent listened to much country since the mid nineties, for awhile now, since boy and girl groups became a trend some of it has been pretty lame. I dont go for the sellout thing same as I dont fall for reinventing the word extreme. You simply had a younger generation that listened to a wider variety of music and brought rock influences into the picture... not pop like there seems to be alot of today. If is all still sounded like Buck Owens it would be under criticism as well. It had to evolve like any other music.
What I meant by integrity was the multiple instruments in the songs and the fact that you could distinguish every note every player was playing and everyone was playing something different. If you wanted to hear a good guitar player on the radio in the mid 90's country radio was the only place you could find one besides the classic stations that were still playing the same old. There was also some really great story tellers around that time, clever lyrics and many were highly influenced by Hank, Patsy and Loretta
Countrys no stranger to commercialism, I remember during the late 60's and 70's when much of it was orchestrated with string sections and most of it sounded the same. Really nothing new there
Yeah I enjoy the older '90s Smashing Pumpkins stuff...but after awhile the singer's voice does annoy me a bit. I kinda go back and forth with them...
Tommy
Tommy
That is a matter of opinion and as you said yourself "you don't get it". Your from the older generation that will never ever get extreme music of any kind. As for extremely horrible, like i said that is opinion and the same can be said about the music you like from others who do not like it.
Siamese Dreams was not that "harsh" as you are describing it. It was their breakthrough though but no one said that SP had a changing impact in music. I agree about his voice. But you are totally wrong that it mostly sounded like noise. I can only attribute that it sounds like "noise" to you because you are of a older generation. I grew up in the 80's but my musical tastes have evolved to embrace what is called "extreme". In other words, I get it. I don't live in the past nor do I only listen to modern artists/bands that themselves live in the past. I like past and present and will like the future i am sure. The only main problem I have with your statements is that to you a band or their album has to have a changing impact. In other words you think or analyze too much instead of enjoying the music. That has always been your problem imo. I can enjoy a band/artists music that is primitive (Darkthrone for example in metal) as well as a more complex one (Dream Theatre as a different example though I am not a fan of theirs) without either one having to have a "changing impact" on music. I just enjoy the music, simple as that. No analyzation and such.
Anyways as for Siamese Dreams, like I said it was not just noise. You need to re-listen the album or just reserve yourself to the fact that any band that has a "heavier" element in them then what you are used to listening to , you will not like because as i said: you don't get it.
But for Siamese Dreams since it is 15 years since you heard it is why I gave you 2 video examples of songs from that album in my previous post. Video #2 (Today) and #4 (Disarm). The other two videos (1979 & Tonight,tonight) are from the Melon Collie album. Give them a listen/watch then let us know what you think, if you still have the same opinion that they are just noise still.
I heard the pop influences only in country in the 90's and definetly today. That to me is sell out. First time I heard it was with Shania Twain. When she became huge then all of a sudden all others started doing the same. It ceased to sound like Country so much so that it was played on non country stations here in NY. It became about solely selling millions and making $$ and not the integrity of the music anymore. It became Big Business unlike it ever has before and that killed it.
You are correct in that it is pretty lame now but it started in the early 90's. As for good guitar back in the 90's, it was around you just didn't seem to have open ears to it because you switched to country and closed everything else out imo. Btw I never heard the Patsy/Hank/Loretta influences.
Other then that you haven't imo given SP a good enough listen. They don't sound the same on every album and I suggest you listen examples from different albums especially the ones I recommended.
BloodSword
Member
The country music of today, you know, the "mainstream" bullshit you find on the country music awards debacle, that makes my hair squonk in pain. These so-called musicians are about the ducketts(money) and nothing else. If I may, I suggest some Steve Earle-"Train a Comin'", Townes Van Zandt, Willie Nelson, Johnny Cash and of course, Gram Parsons, many integrated the "rock into country" but, Gram made it work and sell. Try the album "Grevious Angel" He was in the "Flying Burrito Brothers" with Chris Hillman(Byrds), worked with Emmy Lou Harris and Gene Clark. Gram is no longer with us(rip).
I was talking about the style, the way the music is played when I said changing impact. I was talking about the era not any particular band and they all had some decent tunes. Easier to take today then it was at the time.
The extreme thing, thats just the way I feel, I feel classical is extreme music, I think Symphony X is extreme music, I think Dream Theater is extreme music, which it all is, it is at an extreme in the art of music. I was only relaying that hyjacking the word extreme to only be placed on music based on the soul basis of "aweful", "wicked", "sick", "raunchy", "crude" I find amusing. When I think of extreme sports I think of those that physically and mentally excel at their sport. For instance a downhill racer (ski) goes like hell at extreme skill, just a hair separating disaster, the way extreme has been applied to music is the equalivant to a skier that runs straight into the tree.... "oh, that was really sick, Im into that".
When I said I didnt get it-it was that I didnt get the attraction, not that there was something there stumping me, in fact I found alot of the music from that time extremely dull, extremely elementary and extremely redundant especially when it was band after band song after song.
No it was far from heavier than what I was accustomed to, just noisier by technique and also by intent. Its common and admitted knowledge that much of it was anti technique, I used to call it the anti Satriani age of guitar players. When you cant compete I guess you go the other way, its what punk rockers did too, its all "anti" based stuff. I always figured if you didnt like the current rock scene go make better rock, but some go play in the mudpuddle and feel important by being dirty. From a musical stand point that is how I hear it.
Your vids dont load, I tried them earlier.
Country, well I think there was some great songs written in the mid 90's, cant speak for other times but I liked it much better than the Buck Owens days. When I was a young rocker I couldnt stand Johnny Cash as a singer and I watched his show just the same or anything else that was on country radio at that time. Im stumbling to think of the name of that highly touted male country singer that to me had a gawd aweful voice and questionable pitch. Not a big fan so names and such excape me. Country, you can have it. BTW isnt liking only the "old" country.... living in the past ?
Great Jethro Tull album !
The extreme thing, thats just the way I feel, I feel classical is extreme music, I think Symphony X is extreme music, I think Dream Theater is extreme music, which it all is, it is at an extreme in the art of music. I was only relaying that hyjacking the word extreme to only be placed on music based on the soul basis of "aweful", "wicked", "sick", "raunchy", "crude" I find amusing. When I think of extreme sports I think of those that physically and mentally excel at their sport. For instance a downhill racer (ski) goes like hell at extreme skill, just a hair separating disaster, the way extreme has been applied to music is the equalivant to a skier that runs straight into the tree.... "oh, that was really sick, Im into that".
When I said I didnt get it-it was that I didnt get the attraction, not that there was something there stumping me, in fact I found alot of the music from that time extremely dull, extremely elementary and extremely redundant especially when it was band after band song after song.
No it was far from heavier than what I was accustomed to, just noisier by technique and also by intent. Its common and admitted knowledge that much of it was anti technique, I used to call it the anti Satriani age of guitar players. When you cant compete I guess you go the other way, its what punk rockers did too, its all "anti" based stuff. I always figured if you didnt like the current rock scene go make better rock, but some go play in the mudpuddle and feel important by being dirty. From a musical stand point that is how I hear it.
Your vids dont load, I tried them earlier.
Country, well I think there was some great songs written in the mid 90's, cant speak for other times but I liked it much better than the Buck Owens days. When I was a young rocker I couldnt stand Johnny Cash as a singer and I watched his show just the same or anything else that was on country radio at that time. Im stumbling to think of the name of that highly touted male country singer that to me had a gawd aweful voice and questionable pitch. Not a big fan so names and such excape me. Country, you can have it. BTW isnt liking only the "old" country.... living in the past ?
Great Jethro Tull album !
v2kv
Member
I dunno what kind of vocals you appreciate, but I don't think you necessarily have to be technically good at singing, to be considered a good singer, if you catch my drift.
Cash, Dylan, Cohen, Reed; all those guys weren't exceptional singers, but the imperfection in their vocals made their music so much more soulful, raw, and honest-sounding than it would have been otherwise.
I'm more of a fan of that kind of thing, than say, listening to amazing singers, but obviously there are exceptions to this and the 'style' is more suited to certain music.
Cash, Dylan, Cohen, Reed; all those guys weren't exceptional singers, but the imperfection in their vocals made their music so much more soulful, raw, and honest-sounding than it would have been otherwise.
I'm more of a fan of that kind of thing, than say, listening to amazing singers, but obviously there are exceptions to this and the 'style' is more suited to certain music.
A unique voice helps, but then those with great dynamics, tone and range have unique voices too. So thats what I prefer... those whos voice is a fine instrument.
I know what you are talking about though and many apparently feel this way. I was looking at a Nov(?) Rolling Stone issue in the laundrymat awhile back that had their top 100 vocalists of all time. It gave the judges names and many were vocalists and music people. I could not believe the list, nor the names that came up, and even accepting them those who beat out others was just astonishing to me.
I know what you are talking about though and many apparently feel this way. I was looking at a Nov(?) Rolling Stone issue in the laundrymat awhile back that had their top 100 vocalists of all time. It gave the judges names and many were vocalists and music people. I could not believe the list, nor the names that came up, and even accepting them those who beat out others was just astonishing to me.
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