smashing Pumpkins

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

I was talking about the style, the way the music is played when I said changing impact. I was talking about the era not any particular band and they all had some decent tunes. Easier to take today then it was at the time.

The era did made a changing impact on the music, whether it was good or bad is debatable. Imo it was bad but i still like the earlier bands of Nirvana, Alice in Chains, STP, SP, etc..

The extreme thing, thats just the way I feel, I feel classical is extreme music, I think Symphony X is extreme music, I think Dream Theater is extreme music, which it all is, it is at an extreme in the art of music. I was only relaying that hyjacking the word extreme to only be placed on music based on the soul basis of "aweful", "wicked", "sick", "raunchy", "crude" I find amusing. When I think of extreme sports I think of those that physically and mentally excel at their sport. For instance a downhill racer (ski) goes like hell at extreme skill, just a hair separating disaster, the way extreme has been applied to music is the equalivant to a skier that runs straight into the tree.... "oh, that was really sick, Im into that".

Like I said you really do not get it if you think that is what the definition of "extreme" is to us... it has nothing to do with the words you described (aweful, wicked, sick, raunchy, crude). Most of those words describe glam/hair metal to me and they are by no means extreme music. To me and I think to most extreme music is just a way to describe different genres of metal that do not fall into the mainstream. The "Underground" if you may. It has nothing to do with whom can be sicker or more shocking then the next band.

You definition of extreme sports as such is also way off base.Anyways i am not into "extreme" music or metal because that is really "sick". I rarely know the lyrical content of any song. And if you cannot hear melodic runs and such in a extreme song then you are not opening your ears. I see you in two lights. First like in the movie 6th Sense. You only see what you want to see like the dead people in the movie. And 2nd, I equal you like the general population who defines all metal as noise without really listening to it. I remember back in the day when Ozzy's first 2 solo albums came out when the general population said it was just noise... the metal music he played as well as his contemporaries like Judas Priest, Maiden etc. That is how i see you... like a general population of the metal community. Old School, older generation that refuses to open his hears and mind to something new & defines it as what it isn't. In other words you do not get it and never will.

When I said I didnt get it-it was that I didnt get the attraction, not that there was something there stumping me, in fact I found alot of the music from that time extremely dull, extremely elementary and extremely redundant especially when it was band after band song after song.

Extremely redundant can be said about any music or genre including the ones you like.

No it was far from heavier than what I was accustomed to, just noisier by technique and also by intent. Its common and admitted knowledge that much of it was anti technique, I used to call it the anti Satriani age of guitar players. When you cant compete I guess you go the other way, its what punk rockers did too, its all "anti" based stuff. I always figured if you didnt like the current rock scene go make better rock, but some go play in the mudpuddle and feel important by being dirty. From a musical stand point that is how I hear it.

Again you don't get it and never will. It has nothing to do with competing. The Punk Rockers did not say all of a sudden i can't play like Satriani so i will do the opposite. The Punks just wanted to get back to basics rock of the 3 chord variety and such.

As for the extreme metal musicians. You are sadly mistaken if you think they were/are anti technique. Most if not all can play the Satriani style of guitar and most grew up on it as far as guitar music. As well as Malsteen and the others. They know how to sweep arpeggios, play in different modes, two handed tapping etc. Again you are not listening to the music at all. You just listen to a few seconds and turn it off.Alot of the rhythms are difficult to play as well. I am not saying all of that music is good but not all is bad like you say. All music genres have their bad and good. You are just judging based on a very few and not exploring the genres' at all. I would burn you a CD of the very best of extreme music that may be light on your ears and be to your tastes in guitar but that would be a waste of time since you have the whole genre judged and sounding the same. Like I said you overanalyze music and do not just enjoy it as much.

Your vids dont load, I tried them earlier.

That seems to happen alot with Youtube clips on this site. Look them up on Youtube and get back to us about them. The songs by the Smashing Pumpkins are:

1. Today
2. Disarm
3. 1979 (my fave one)
4. Tonight, Tonight

Im stumbling to think of the name of that highly touted male country singer that to me had a gawd aweful voice and questionable pitch Not a big fan so names and such excape me. Country, you can have it.

Garth Brooks?

BTW isnt liking only the "old" country.... living in the past ?

I don't like just the past but i certainly do not like what is being called Country nowadays. It's equalivant to me as when the so called Hair/Glam metal bands were being called metal. It just wasn't so.

 

[v2kv]

tlnr

 

[Belligerent]

Gish and Siamese Dream have MAYBE 3-4 good songs total for both. Other than that Corgan and his crew of whiners bug the hell out of me.

 

[razoredge]

OK... Alan Jackson isnt country... whatever

You are way off on tangents again... insulting me as usual Then you are combining a bunch of genres and that what I am saying covers all of them. Your now bouncing from the grunge/post grunge thing to black and death metal ???? WTF ????

I was around when punk became its thing and I know quite well the motivations behind it, Satch was still a decade in the future and grunge further yet.

Let me repeat one last time - "I was only relaying that hyjacking the word extreme to only be placed on music based on the soul basis of "aweful", "wicked", "sick", "raunchy", "crude" I find amusing." Nothing to get there, extreme could mean many things applied to music, its an English word and has a defination, that could be applied to SRV or Joe Pass, its not the sole possesion of a genre

Yes, death, black, hardcore and what ever other similiar subgenres are out there are based on one or more of the above. I said nothing about who had skill or not regarding all of these. I dont listen to those "genres" soley due to the so called vocals and often the subject matter, its just not a place I need to live. As for the pieces/parts, what little period of time I have tolerated any of it, I simply heard revamped Metallica, Testament-ish riffs or shredding I can find in more pleasing and topic worthy music without cartoon villian "vocalists".

Let me stress, I can find all the elements of so called "extreme" music, in either a more positive topic matter, a more worthy politically challenging subject matter, and with vocalists that can ..... ah..... fucking sing.

The only thing I dont get is why the small nitch of people are drawn to it, as in I dont get whats in their minds, same as I dont see the attraction of gore movies, Christianity, or devil worship... all pointless little fetishes to me. It has NOTHING to do with all that other crap you just wont STOP throwing at me.

 

[youdontknowme]

real odd, considering The Smashing Pumpkins were one of the bands that made my dad switch from country radio to alternative rock.

 

[razoredge]

It probably was good for late blommers or then current bloomers, to others it was regression

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

You are way off on tangents again... insulting me as usual Then you are combining a bunch of genres and that what I am saying covers all of them. Your now bouncing from the grunge/post grunge thing to black and death metal ???? WTF ????

Where did i insult you like name calling? As for me going from Grunge to BM... i was using them as examples because "extreme" is more commonly used to describe the underground metal scene...

I was around when punk became its thing and I know quite well the motivations behind it, Satch was still a decade in the future and grunge further yet.

Perhaps or perhaps not you know the motivations behind it or you think you do but you certainly do not get it.

Nothing to get there, extreme could mean many things applied to music, its an English word and has a defination, that could be applied to SRV or Joe Pass, its not the sole possesion of a genre

Yes it can but it means only one genre nowadays and the word is used in that context now and not in the world according to Razor.

Yes, death, black, hardcore and what ever other similiar subgenres are out there are based on one or more of the above. I said nothing about who had skill or not regarding all of these. I dont listen to those "genres" soley due to the so called vocals and often the subject matter, its just not a place I need to live.

Again you do not get it if you think it's based on those descriptions. It's like saying that Robert Johnson and Paganini were Devil music for their time and that is all they were about.

As for the pieces/parts, what little period of time I have tolerated any of it, I simply heard revamped Metallica, Testament-ish riffs or shredding I can find in more pleasing and topic worthy music without cartoon villian "vocalists".

If you think they are rehashed thrash riffs then you really do not get it or are not listening to it carefully. Yes, they are influenced by Thrash since after all it more or less evolved from Thrash but they took what influenced them and made it their own much like any other music genre like blues and blues rock for example. As for vocalists and their stage personas, alot of vocalists did that in other genres such as Alice Cooper, KISS, The Cure etc. hell even Mick Jagger had a tatoo (fake one) of the Devil on his chest when the Stones played Sympathy for the Devil on the Rock n Roll Circus movie they did. Alot of singers/vocalists throughout Rock and it's dozens of subgenres do such things because they are also performers.

Let me stress, I can find all the elements of so called "extreme" music, in either a more positive topic matter, a more worthy politically challenging subject matter, and with vocalists that can ..... ah..... fucking sing.

Like I said, you will never get it and are the ONLY one pretty much stuck in what you define "extreme".

The only thing I dont get is why the small nitch of people are drawn to it, as in I dont get whats in their minds, same as I dont see the attraction of gore movies, Christianity, or devil worship... all pointless little fetishes to me. It has NOTHING to do with all that other crap you just wont STOP throwing at me.

Frankly my friend, people like a little danger in their lives that spooks them. They don't like to always play it "safe" like you. They like a little excitement or such things that are on the darkside so even though they do not literally do what is described in movies and music they do like to listen or watch it. But like I said yet once again you do not get it and never will. You think that people like me who like extreme metal are only drawn to it because of the subject matter and that is so far from the truth. That is what I am trying to get you to understand that it is about the music and nothing else. All else is icing on the cake. Btw an example is peoples' fascination with gangster movies ala Godfather, Goodfellas etc.We all like that danger, excitement of the darkside that each one of us conciously or subconciously wish we could do. Much the same can be said about lyrical content in music though to me that is 2nd in importance to the music itself.

But anyways it is pointless for you and me to keep going on this topic because we are both set on our ways. Only thing I ask is you look up those video clips of SP on Youtube and not try to overanalyze the instrument parts. I know it's your musician nature to but for once just listen to the music and enjoy it that way.

 

[razoredge]

Actually you dont get it. You have no idea how I have lived my life and what I understand. A life full of achieved challenges as well as tortured mind. Most likely why I muse at posers that do it through music or movies. Perhaps the problem is that I understand too much. A few things for sure is I dont like Smashing Pumkins, they are not extreme nor is grunge considered extreme, even in the sense that the music media and folklore has tried to isolate the word extreme for their own use. Thats whats up in the real world.

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

Actually you dont get it. You have no idea how I have lived my life and what I understand. A life full of achieved challenges as well as tortured mind. Most likely why I muse at posers that do it through music or movies. Perhaps the problem is that I understand too much. A few things for sure is I dont like Smashing Pumkins, they are not extreme nor is grunge considered extreme, even in the sense that the music media and folklore has tried to isolate the word extreme for their own use. Thats whats up in the real world.

Older generation... c'est la vie... que cerar cerar...

 

[Satanstoenail]

 

[razoredge]

 

[hermosotrozo]

plzz help me in finding the lyrics of the song "The Beginning Is the end is th Beginning"...cant seem to find it anywhere

 

[panzerfaust666]

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric....ing-Pumpkins/2043F6D9E10A34FD48256B840031FCF1

 

[Doomguy]

Where did i insult you like name calling? As for me going from Grunge to BM... i was using them as examples because "extreme" is more commonly used to describe the underground metal scene...

Perhaps or perhaps not you know the motivations behind it or you think you do but you certainly do not get it.

Yes it can but it means only one genre nowadays and the word is used in that context now and not in the world according to Razor.

Again you do not get it if you think it's based on those descriptions. It's like saying that Robert Johnson and Paganini were Devil music for their time and that is all they were about. If you think they are rehashed thrash riffs then you really do not get it or are not listening to it carefully. Yes, they are influenced by Thrash since after all it more or less evolved from Thrash but they took what influenced them and made it their own much like any other music genre like blues and blues rock for example. As for vocalists and their stage personas, alot of vocalists did that in other genres such as Alice Cooper, KISS, The Cure etc. hell even Mick Jagger had a tatoo (fake one) of the Devil on his chest when the Stones played Sympathy for the Devil on the Rock n Roll Circus movie they did. Alot of singers/vocalists throughout Rock and it's dozens of subgenres do such things because they are also performers.

Like I said, you will never get it and are the ONLY one pretty much stuck in what you define "extreme".

Frankly my friend, people like a little danger in their lives that spooks them. They don't like to always play it "safe" like you. They like a little excitement or such things that are on the darkside so even though they do not literally do what is described in movies and music they do like to listen or watch it. But like I said yet once again you do not get it and never will. You think that people like me who like extreme metal are only drawn to it because of the subject matter and that is so far from the truth. That is what I am trying to get you to understand that it is about the music and nothing else. All else is icing on the cake. Btw an example is peoples' fascination with gangster movies ala Godfather, Goodfellas etc.We all like that danger, excitement of the darkside that each one of us conciously or subconciously wish we could do. Much the same can be said about lyrical content in music though to me that is 2nd in importance to the music itself.

But anyways it is pointless for you and me to keep going on this topic because we are both set on our ways. Only thing I ask is you look up those video clips of SP on Youtube and not try to overanalyze the instrument parts. I know it's your musician nature to but for once just listen to the music and enjoy it that way.

tl; dr

And smashing pumpkins were good, but they suck now. There was only 1 good track on Zeitgeist; and that was Doomsday Clock.