So I Offer

[Styvo]

This drummer a free weekend to come back in a re-do some of his parts again and he turned my offer down.

As it turned out i wasn't able to attend the weekend that this particular drummer was in tracking his parts.

I left it the other guys to take care of and for the most part they did an ok job.

However after spending more time under closer inspection and scrutiny i know that they didn't get it quiet right.

Overall the drums sound is workable but the issue lies in the fact a number of the tracks at hand are based around rhythmic tom grooves,and the toms being the main problem,too hot a signal and not tuned accordingly.

I decided to speak to the guy and he agreed to meet with me.
After explaining to him what i was concerned about, and pointing out that my concern, was to deliver a result that would do the band justice,he went on to tell me that since "that" weekend he hasn't done much practice and it would be too much of a hassle and in his opinion a waste of MY time,to give it another go.

He then went on to say that he doesn't know much about what we do,but there is a software he has seen that lets you blend things and if it wasn't a problem for me,to use that software and make it work that way.

I couldn't believe what i was hearing.

Here i am trying to help these fuckers out,and prepared to give up a weekend and get it right and i get no thanks.

What the fucks got into these bands these day's.

I know if that offer was put forward to me i would jump on it no hesitation,but it just goes to show,being famous is more important to some than actually being of any worth.

 

[jrt12]

this is why musicians have such a bad rap and stereotypes about laziness, unprofessionalism, etc. unfortunately, like with any other group, it only takes a few bad apples...

good luck man, at least you dont have to work with him on a regular basis like his bandmates do

 

[JeffTD]

He could be under the "I did my shit the first time and your guys fucked up" mentality. Who knows. I'd just trigger his shit and leave it at that.

 

[nwright]

Meh, in my opinion, if you have good enough signals to trigger samples and can replace the sounds with drumagog or aptrigga, you've just saved yourself a lot of time...I feel like he perhaps was being honest? I know that for me personally, the next couple weeks after I've been exhausted recording, I don't play too much, and I'd be out of shape to play certain ways, too (I play guitar, though). Charge them their rate for you to clean up the drums and you still make your money.

I guess this doesn't seem like an issue. If the performance was bad, that's one thing...triggering tracks because of mic problems, especially in the day and age of samples, seems like a decently intelligent solution to me.

 

[DevilJaw]

wait, he wanted you to replace? thats a win in my book. as long as there are no extreme editing to get it right.

 

[Styvo]

You guys are funny..........i mean that sincerely too.

@ nwright i do understand that point about perhaps being honest,i don't disagree at all.

@ dss3 could be man,i looked at it that way also,and in many way's it's a fair statement cause at the end of it all,it's really what it boils down too,US not getting it quiet right.

Having said that though,i figured with ample time before the tracks need to be complete that re tracking would have ended with a better result,but as you have all pointed out,out comes that tool that let's you blend things.

 

[Metaltastic]

After explaining to him what i was concerned about, and pointing out that my concern, was to deliver a result that would do the band justice,he went on to tell me that since "that" weekend he hasn't done much practice and it would be too much of a hassle and in his opinion a waste of MY time,to give it another go.

Wait...how is this in any way bad/insulting/whatever? The dude's being honest and doing it for your sake, and he doesn't mind replacing, and is saving you time - I'm really not seeing the problem here

 

[Ermz]

Hmm, maybe we need some added perspective to feel a little bit of the bitterness behind this. I think a lot of us here regularly run into situations where bands approach us and say 'you can fix that with samples, right?'. Minimal work, maximum results seems to be the catchphrase of this generation. I'm sorry that things didn't play out the way you wanted them to though, Louis.

 

[Suicide_As_Alibi]

Yeah, the way you've described it hardly makes the guy sound like the arsehole you originally made him out to be, though obviously we don't know the way he said it. The guys in my own band constantly get me to sort things out with editing first rather than just re-recording their parts - but they're definitely lazy cunts

If anything, it sounds like he might have more faith in your engineering skills than in his own drumming. Personally, I'd take it like that and think I'm being complimented rather than assuming the worst - that way you both come out looking good

Steve

 

[Styvo]

I understand what you guys are all saying,i don't entirely disagree with the added input,In fact i agree.

My surprise when he replied no leave it and fix it with drumagog came about because so many guys want there sound on the cd as opposed to the samples.They bitch to me that so and so does that and we are not after that type of sound.This is the exact scenario i encountered with this band. We don't won't such and such's sound we want it to be organic and represent us.

So in my experience if something isn't quiet right at the source you try and correct it if time budget etc etc allow.
As i already said i figured it would yield better results to re do the tracking again and get on with finishing the product representing the band in it's authentic state.

I accept his honesty and correct he isn't an asshole because he was being straight,but it surprised me that it's his product and knowing that something isn't quiet right,he was prepared to run with it instead of getting in there again and working through it to correct things.

 

[nwright]

I understand what you guys are all saying,i don't entirely disagree with the added input,In fact i agree.

My surprise when he replied no leave it and fix it with drumagog came about because so many guys want there sound on the cd as opposed to the samples.They bitch to me that so and so does that and we are not after that type of sound.This is the exact scenario i encountered with this band. We don't won't such and such's sound we want it to be organic and represent us.

So in my experience if something isn't quiet right at the source you try and correct it if time budget etc etc allow.
As i already said i figured it would yield better results to re do the tracking again and get on with finishing the product representing the band in it's authentic state.

I accept his honesty and correct he isn't an asshole because he was being straight,but it surprised me that it's his product and knowing that something isn't quiet right,he was prepared to run with it instead of getting in there again and working through it to correct things.

But from his perspective, and in my opinion, he didn't have anything to correct...The problem of having too hot a signal on the mics isn't his, it was whoever set the levels. So what you were asking him to do was go back in and put some work into fixing someone else's mistake...And, possibly, come out with a worse performance that he originally did - all because the engineer ran some mics too hot...IMO, samples is what you do. His performance is still intact - which to me is why you use a real person to begin with. The only thing you don't get is his crappy tom tracks. Using a sound replacer to straight up replace the drums will take away 100% of the stuff that "isn't quite right" as you say. So to me, it's the best, fastest, easiest solution.

I don't know man, seems like this isn't HIS issue.

 

[Styvo]

Dude your right in as far as saying he did his parts.I'm with you.

The issue on a personal level,is that i wasn't overseeing it,I had come off a hectic week and was just run down,so i left it to the hands of my bus partners,and as i have learn't from this if you want it done a certain way don't rely on others to do it for you.Even though clear instructions had been made.

It's not a disaster as i may be over dramatising it , but in comparison to the standard i set for myself and expect from the guys I'm with,it's not up to par.

I've already started work on it after yesterdays discussion with the drummer and his performance for the most part is good but not great.And he knows it.

I'll salvage it as it's what I'm being paid to do but i was only hoping that we could get back in there and get a better take.

It's not his issue your right and it's precisely why i posted to get opinions and perspective's , i know if that was said to me about something i was involved with,i would have a different attitude and do whatever it takes to get it right,performance included.

Personally you wanna be rapt with your work regardless of musician or engineer and again this same attitude is probably where my frustration stems from,because instead of now focusing on mixing,i have to worry about fixing and if i do a stellar job it's what a great band you guys are,and if i fuck it,it's who the fuck mixed that.

I'm just having a bitch,i'll get over it.

And i appreciate your input it's definitely helped with perspective,so thank you for sharing.

Like my mentor used to say all the time~Shit in Shit out~ let's just see what aroma we can add to that shit to make it abit more tasty....LOL!

 

[dontletmedrown]

...if i do a stellar job it's what a great band you guys are,and if i fuck it,it's who the fuck mixed that.

YEP!

I don't think you can ever escape that feeling-- even if the drums were tracked perfectly, you would still have that feeling when you move onto the next instrument. It's what pushes us to work harder and do our best. You obviously care about doing a good job.

Is this the first time your partner/team has let you down? Maybe time for a sit-down if they are fucking up your projects. Point your frustration where it belongs: on the dude that fucked up, and NOT the client. Make that dude do the sample replacement on his own time.

 

[PostMortem1666]

Hmm, maybe we need some added perspective to feel a little bit of the bitterness behind this. I think a lot of us here regularly run into situations where bands approach us and say 'you can fix that with samples, right?'. Minimal work, maximum results seems to be the catchphrase of this generation. I'm sorry that things didn't play out the way you wanted them to though, Louis.

+1. I would much rather have the OPTION of not having to trigger the toms. If time allows then why not re-do the parts with proper tom tuning and mic levels?

 

[Ermz]

Ah so the indignation comes from the underlying hypocrisy between what the band want and how hard they're prepared to work for it. I'm familiar with the types that say 'we hate how so and so did that all with samples, it sounds so synthetic, so lacking in character'. When it comes to tracking they are usually the first to say '.... you can fix that in ProTools right?'.