So word is out Steve Smythe and Nevermore split

[r_young112]

Loomis knows theory. How can a lead guitarist not know any theory when playing over a progression/rhythm? Maybe he meant that his understanding of theory isn't the greatest or he knows the basics.

all based on ear, the solo for I, voyager doesn't make sense theory wise, but it sounds badass, the sweeps for TGE work, until theyre shifted down 2 frets and done again, etc

but yes he does a lot of diminish stuff as mentioned, ie, river dragon solo, fills from TGE, enemies of reality intro riff, etc, im sure he knows what a diminished scale is, but from what i gather he plays more based on sound than theory

 

[Altitudes]

all based on ear, the solo for I, voyager doesn't make sense theory wise, but it sounds badass, the sweeps for TGE work, until theyre shifted down 2 frets and done again, etc

but yes he does a lot of diminish stuff as mentioned, ie, river dragon solo, fills from TGE, enemies of reality intro riff, etc, im sure he knows what a diminished scale is, but from what i gather he plays more based on sound than theory

Just because he is self taught doesn't mean he does not know how to play notes within a key. It is apparent that he digs the dissonant and out of key type sound because it is less conventional. Much better than tastelessly running up and down a major or minor scale.

 

[Xtremevillan]

I'm self taught--and nowhere near Chris' or really anyone who took advanced classes' level. In fact, I'm a bit rusty, haha.

But you don't have to have a degree (sorry Chris ) to know music theory.



Nah, never mind. Just read the first sentence.

 

[r_young112]

haha i know you dont have to have a degree, im just kinda arguing the point that sure loomis might know a little theory, but his writing isn't theory oriented, its more like, when you pick up a guitar at first, and you realize that a diminished fifth sounds metal, and so on, etc, and doing that long enough will get you to such an advanced point where you can see your own scales, you might know theory a little bit, but you'll always have the things that sound good to you in mind

 

[Will Bozarth]

in order for his solos to sound right over the diminished chords, he kinda has to know what notes go with those chords, thus showing that he knows theory in what he's doing

 

[r_young112]

Instead of argue, I have an idea...


Hey Chris do you know if Jeff knows theory, even a little bit?

 

[Chris_Broderick]

Instead of argue, I have an idea...


Hey Chris do you know if Jeff knows theory, even a little bit?

Yes Jeff knows a decent amount of theory (probably more then he lets on), but at the same time I don't think he lets it make his decisions on the instrument (as it should be).

Take care, Chris.

 

[demeyed]

Its pretty hard to believe that anybody could play guitar decently in a band for a few years and not know some amount of theory. Even if they don't know the names for what they are doing, most people stick to the principals laid down in theory.

 

[belialsprophet]

well even if Jeff doesn't know that much theory, I think that is a major contributor to why nevermore is so unique. I' ve met people who dont know theory, but they are kick ass songwriters. Not knowing theory helps you to think more outside the box and it doesnt mess with u if u play in a weird meter, because it feels natural. Either way Jeff is amazing.

On a different note, I really hope that Chris does get the opportunity to join nevermore, he would be a great addition.

 

[Chris_Broderick]

well even if Jeff doesn't know that much theory, I think that is a major contributor to why nevermore is so unique. I' ve met people who dont know theory, but they are kick ass songwriters. Not knowing theory helps you to think more outside the box and it doesnt mess with u if u play in a weird meter, because it feels natural. Either way Jeff is amazing.

On a different note, I really hope that Chris does get the opportunity to join nevermore, he would be a great addition.

Jeff definitely has a cool writing style, but I don't buy into this idea at all, because even if you think of theory as a box then you realize it can be broken and you know how to break it. If you don't know theory you will alway be stuck with your influences and own tonality and never know how you can truly experiment with those tools. Most people that see theory as a limiting tool usually don't know enough to see how anything can be possible through theory (ex. most people write in 4/4 however when you learn different meters are possible you are free to experiment with those meters). Last, when I write, it usually starts with inspiration (just like anyone) but them I use theory to manipulate the idea where I want to go.

Take care, Chris.

 

[belialsprophet]

Jeff definitely has a cool writing style, but I don't buy into this idea at all, because even if you think of theory as a box then you realize it can be broken and you know how to break it. If you don't know theory you will alway be stuck with your influences and own tonality and never know how you can truly experiment with those tools. Most people that see theory as a limiting tool usually don't know enough to see how anything can be possible through theory (ex. most people write in 4/4 however when you learn different meters are possible you are free to experiment with those meters). Last, when I write, it usually starts with inspiration (just like anyone) but them I use theory to manipulate the idea where I want to go.

Take care, Chris.

I see your point, and I agree that if one does know how to manipulate theory they can break the barrier of limit and play highly complex things, but i was basing my above theory on personal experiences. A guitarist in my band knows many things about theory, but he has trouble learning things outside of logical theory. Like with certain dissonent notes put together, may sound cool, but he has trouble grasping it, because his theory interferes with him I guess. Mainly he just tries to think things out to much, rather that just play it.

 

[Kohlrabihaus]

the problem is, that some people, who learn theory, tend to work on music with too much head, instead of heart! same with some musicians, who have incredible technical skills, forget to write music, instead of mathematical formulas..
may depend on who u are, but for me, learning theory now, after playing and composing for 10 years, helps me to break through so many walls, and understand WHAT i was doing, WHY, from what rules it derived, and how the things are connected and so on.

i really want to learn jazz, but i need some really solid knowledge, because it was never my world, but i hope it will be, some day.

in february i will start study music, and i am so thrilled about the things i am going to learn!
there will be 2 written tests to pass (one in ear training, and one general music theory), and things i already learned helped me working on new material!
but i will not let the theory decide, what i compose, but my ear and heart.. if theory is a help, and i am sure it will be, i will use it to arrange, transpose, and what not.. if it sounds better the incorrect way.. to hell with it!

 

[AngleofDeaf667]

Jeff definitely has a cool writing style, but I don't buy into this idea at all, because even if you think of theory as a box then you realize it can be broken and you know how to break it. If you don't know theory you will alway be stuck with your influences and own tonality and never know how you can truly experiment with those tools. Most people that see theory as a limiting tool usually don't know enough to see how anything can be possible through theory (ex. most people write in 4/4 however when you learn different meters are possible you are free to experiment with those meters). Last, when I write, it usually starts with inspiration (just like anyone) but them I use theory to manipulate the idea where I want to go.

Take care, Chris.

I agree completely!!
Shawn Lane knew a lot of theory but also broke through those barriers by playing some really cool 'outside' stuff.

 

[Chris_Broderick]

It comes down to knowing when to use it, but I would also re-state that everything that we can write with our current tuning system can be explained theoretically and therefore anyone that can't grasp certain note combos and rhythms hasn't fully explored theory.

take care, Chris.

 

[slashvanyoung]

It comes down to knowing when to use it, but I would also re-state that everything that we can write with our current tuning system can be explained theoretically and therefore anyone that can't grasp certain note combos and rhythms hasn't fully explored theory.

take care, Chris.

Hey Chris,

so, do you sometimes experiment with things like micro tonality, to "really" break out of borders? Or do you think that there is still so much to discover from our "western system", even for a studied guitarist like you are?

 

[Chris_Broderick]

Hey Chris,

so, do you sometimes experiment with things like micro tonality, to "really" break out of borders? Or do you think that there is still so much to discover from our "western system", even for a studied guitarist like you are?

there is still a lot for me thats for sure.

Chris.

 

[Chris_Broderick]

Two very good examples of the balance between Theory, musical expression and the overall understanding of it,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWHKeC4IEgA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoGQ9yHOyZQ&mode=related&search=

and this is but a taste of where you can go
hope you guys like it because it's very useful.
Chris.

 

[r_young112]

those videos were my bibles like 2 months ago

 

[belialsprophet]

It comes down to knowing when to use it, but I would also re-state that everything that we can write with our current tuning system can be explained theoretically and therefore anyone that can't grasp certain note combos and rhythms hasn't fully explored theory.

take care, Chris.

true

 

[slashvanyoung]

Thanks for the links, Chris! These vids with Joe are quiet interesting. His playing has spawned a whole generation of shredders.