Some mastering questions

[indecizo]

First of all I'm doing mastering for my own mixes mainly because the bands im producing dont want to spend too much money sending songs to a major ME, and no one here makes good mixes as me in the whole area ( not THAT good, yet hehe) but since im basically the only one at least for metal, the metal people always choose me, so I wanted to know things for mastering that I havent found in hundreds of articles and posts in a lot of different forums, and believe me, I have searched since 2009.

1) Is it strictly necessary to leave the mix under 0 db?
I always put the mastering plugin when the mix is finished, but if I bypass this, the master channel meter shows everything over 0 db. With the the mastering vst activated, it doesnt sound bad but its not loud enough and if i push things up the song starts to sound band and with clicks.

2) Should I get a high end sound card?
I am using the mother boards card and ASIO drivers. I also have a pod studio gx interface.

3) When I bring the sound louder, even after exporting, I still get clicks in the song, is that because Im damaging the mix with the mastering?

 

[-Noodles-]

Yes.

and..


Yes.


oh, and finally;

Yes.

Not that you asked, but for what its worth:
You're not a mastering engineer. You clearly don't even have rudimentary knowledge of digital audio, let alone the principles behind mastering. If you want to call yourself a "make it loud" guy - then do that but don't think about telling people you offer mastering services. If you have truly searched on the forum, then you must've got at least one of the 100 or more links to a certain book. Or perhaps used Google?

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Just in case, here's the 101st time:

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Audio-Science-Bob-Katz/dp/0240805453[/ame]

 

[indecizo]

Thanks.
I have this book even in my language, but I cant understand a lot of things yet.

About the sound card, what are the main beneficial differences between producing with a high end card and my motherboard's card or why is it worth getting one? Which ones would you recommend?

 

[-Noodles-]

What's your current monitoring chain [including room]?
How much money are you willing to spend to upgrade?

If you don't understand why you need to change your current gear - then I suggest reading page 75 onwards of the suggested reading (http://www.digido.com/images/products/Mastering_Audio_Index.pdf).

Most semi-professional mastering rooms are heavily acoustically treated room that contain extremely wide bandwidth speakers and really 'high end' DA/ADs.
If I was to give you a suggestion of gear, something along the lines of [http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/duet2.php] if you're on a budget.

But to move into mastering, you'll need a decent room / great speakers and an understanding of the codes & methods of delivery that clients expect.

You could obviously master in Reaper on headphones and use Toast to burn a "redbook" cd for replication - but, again, it doesn't make you a mastering engineer. There's a lot more to mastering than EQ and compression that people don't get.

What are the chapters you don't understand in the book?

Perhaps asking specific questions rather than vague ones will help people to tailor their answers appropriately. If it's on setup, codes, distribution or the sonic techniques - there are several guys on here who would easily be able to answer any specific question.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Your soundcard is not alterring the sound if you're doing everything in the box so you don't need to change it. The only benefits would be a better stability at lower latency and the fact that you'd hear better with a card with good converters, but you probably have much more important things to change before that (room treatment, monitors...).

 

[Jordon]

I really, really don't mean to be a dick, but I think you should look up the differences between a Music Producer, Audio Engineer, Mastering Engineer, and hobbyist.

I do produce bands, but I consider myself more an audio engineer (and refer to myself as such) because I don't think I've quite earned the producer title just yet. If you're worrying about what "sound card" you're using, then I don't think you're quite at the point of being an audio engineer, much less a producer (in the modern sense of the term, anyway).

Call me old-fashioned, call me an ass, call me stubborn, but I've been working very hard to hopefully reach the point where my business cards no longer say "Audio Engineer/Editor" and say "Producer/Engineer" and I get grumpy when people start using that title without rudimentary knowledge of engineering, or even the difference between the two positions.

 

[pikachu69]

your mix should not clip when you turn your master buss plugins off. If it does it also means you will be over loading or clipping the first plugin in your chain, most likely the cause of the noise you are hearing. ALWAYS A/B when you apply a plugin anywhere, unless you are using a gain plugin, it should not get drastically louder or quiter.

Just turn off your master buss plugins, lower your whole mix till it stops clipping then reactivate one master plugin at a time till you find which one drops the volume and fix it.

 

[indecizo]

I really, really don't mean to be a dick, but I think you should look up the differences between a Music Producer, Audio Engineer, Mastering Engineer, and hobbyist.

I do produce bands, but I consider myself more an audio engineer (and refer to myself as such) because I don't think I've quite earned the producer title just yet. If you're worrying about what "sound card" you're using, then I don't think you're quite at the point of being an audio engineer, much less a producer (in the modern sense of the term, anyway).

Call me old-fashioned, call me an ass, call me stubborn, but I've been working very hard to hopefully reach the point where my business cards no longer say "Audio Engineer/Editor" and say "Producer/Engineer" and I get grumpy when people start using that title without rudimentary knowledge of engineering, or even the difference between the two positions.

I dont think asking about a better card is a dumb question I didnt even considered to buy a new one for 'better audio' thats one of the reasons me and some people register to this forum, to clarify doubts even if these sound stupid; I just wanted to know if it was an upgrade for the people in this forum and in what aspects improved their workspace and if so, maybe I'll buying one. I also know 'Audio Engineers' or 'Producers' and trust me, even with my little experience and mastered songs with little clicks, programed drums and amp sims my mixes blow their shit. Mixing is cool for a hobbie for me I don't depend on it for living but it is satisfying to hear a good produced song because it is an art. I hope finish some things and get bands permission to upload unreleased cd's and youll realize Im not a noob at all, or a 'much less than a producer'.

Thanks people for the answers!

EDIT: I did this in an hour, no bass, programmed drums, tse x50 amp sim, no editing, no eq, and no inspiration so music sucks hahaha
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yfmwy25kzcy6ml1/X3.mp3

 

[-Noodles-]

Copy the public link, people on here [including myself] hate having to download tracks onto their desktop just for one listen.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

I also know 'Audio Engineers' or 'Producers' and trust me, even with my little experience and mastered songs with little clicks, programed drums and amp sims my mixes blow their shit.

I did this in an hour, no bass, programmed drums, tse x50 amp sim, no editing, no eq, and no inspiration so music sucks hahaha

Sorry brah, but you see the paradox here?

 

[Leon--]

if you don't have a good knowledge in mastering(and good equipment) then just send it to a mastering engineer.

 

[indecizo]

Sorry brah, but you see the paradox here?

nah man I just dont have things here right now and time enough to make an effort. My point is, at least here in mexico, audio engineers with the most expensive gear dont know anything also some of them are american and they studied for audio engineering. That said, that production is not great, mastering is also bad and the famous artists end up sending their tracks to a ME in the US which means in big amounts of money a lot of undergrounds artists wont pay. Well I think I lost, I will be sending tracks and hope for the best.

I almost forgot the link.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28110505/X3.mp3

 

[-Noodles-]

I don't really think you have any idea of what you're asking.

I answered your questions, and have tried to help with responding questions.
The mix you posted sounds like it was done with an amp sim and using programmed drums. Nothing wrong with it especially, but I do call foul on the 'no eq'. Your entire workflow probably uses editing and effects. Regardless - I refer to you the Bob Katz book and my questions.

If you want to learn how to master then once you've completed the process you'll understand why ME's use such expensive equipment and charge what they do for their services.
If you want professional work, then expect to pay professional money.

So - undercut if you want but I suspect that you then won't be offering a professional service when placed in comparison.
As a side note, in the last post you mentioned 'audio engineers' (both in job title and in studies). These people are not mastering engineers, which is why the famous artists send them to America.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Guys be gentle, he didn't say he was a mastering engineer nor that he wanted to become one. He's only mastering his own mixes because bands can't afford to pay a real engineer, and so he wants to improve on that (and there's a lot of room there), I don't see what is so wrong with it.

 

[SocialNumb]

They're giving him a hard time because he is a beaner.



I'm kidding if that didn't come across. Lightening up the mood if you will.

 

[indecizo]

I don't really think you have any idea of what you're asking.

I answered your questions, and have tried to help with responding questions.
The mix you posted sounds like it was done with an amp sim and using programmed drums. Nothing wrong with it especially, but I do call foul on the 'no eq'. Your entire workflow probably uses editing and effects. Regardless - I refer to you the Bob Katz book and my questions.

If you want to learn how to master then once you've completed the process you'll understand why ME's use such expensive equipment and charge what they do for their services.
If you want professional work, then expect to pay professional money.

So - undercut if you want but I suspect that you then won't be offering a professional service when placed in comparison.
As a side note, in the last post you mentioned 'audio engineers' (both in job title and in studies). These people are not mastering engineers, which is why the famous artists send them to America.

'No eq' for me it means i didnt play with the amp eq before so i got a really generic tone, and of course some detalis for drums. Can you be specific about what ME's do besides getting your tracks loud??
I know a band that was recorded here, mixed with a well known american mixer I cant remember the name, he changed the snare and maybe the kick and the mastering went to Ted Jensen. The CD sounds like the original recording, but louder and with replaced snare/kick :S

Guys be gentle, he didn't say he was a mastering engineer nor that he wanted to become one. He's only mastering his own mixes because bands can't afford to pay a real engineer, and so he wants to improve on that (and there's a lot of room there), I don't see what is so wrong with it.

Exactly, and I dont want my mixes get destroyed by a guy who doesnt know well. Thanks.

They're giving him a hard time because he is a beaner.

You've got a problem with my beans ese?

 

[rfahey86]

no one here makes good mixes as me in the whole area ( not THAT good, yet hehe)

1) Is it strictly necessary to leave the mix under 0 db?

2) Should I get a high end sound card?

3) When I bring the sound louder, even after exporting, I still get clicks in the song, is that because Im damaging the mix with the mastering?

Thanks.
I have this book even in my language, but I cant understand a lot of things yet.

I also know 'Audio Engineers' or 'Producers' and trust me, even with my little experience and mastered songs with little clicks, programed drums and amp sims my mixes blow their shit. Mixing is cool for a hobbie for me I don't depend on it for living but it is satisfying to hear a good produced song because it is an art. I hope finish some things and get bands permission to upload unreleased cd's and youll realize Im not a noob at all, or a 'much less than a producer'.

'No eq' for me it means i didnt play with the amp eq before so i got a really generic tone, and of course some detalis for drums. Can you be specific about what ME's do besides getting your tracks loud??
I know a band that was recorded here, mixed with a well known american mixer I cant remember the name, he changed the snare and maybe the kick and the mastering went to Ted Jensen. The CD sounds like the original recording, but louder and with replaced snare/kick :S

Sounds like you have a lot to learn. Rule number 1 - don't master your own mixes. I would brush over the concepts of digitial audio, AD/DA conversion, mixing technique, and everything else before you even thing about mastering.
Also, Before you put down all those AE, Producers, and ME's pull your head out of your ass. Just because their mixes don't sound like yours, doesn't mean that they are not good. When you put yourself on a pedestal and look down on those around you, that's when you fail.

 

[SocialNumb]

You've got a problem with my beans ese?

No you boarder hopper, I love your beans. I also love your woman.

 

[jipchen]

Can you be specific about what ME's do besides getting your tracks loud??
I know a band that was recorded here, mixed with a well known american mixer I cant remember the name, he changed the snare and maybe the kick and the mastering went to Ted Jensen. The CD sounds like the original recording, but louder and with replaced snare/kick :S

What? If the CD was mixed by a good mixing engineer, and you think it sounds the same as the recording but louder (and with different kick and snare) the guy was either fucking with you or there's something seriously wrong with your ears. That's just impossible, even untrained ears gotta notice the difference.


There's a lot a mastering engineer can do, but he doesn't have to. You said you know about producing and audio engineering, and then you ask what he does besides loudness?
-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_mastering
Gives you a really small hint of what can be done.
If the mastering engineer gets a mix which is very good already, there is much less to do than with a bad mix obviously.. so the difference CAN be small. With more training your ears will notice the subtle differences and maybe appreciate it.