Mastering Question : -10db rms enough for you?

[dcb]

Bob Katz sugessts -10 db RMS for the loudest parts of the song (for example chorus). I now master all my stuff and bands that i master to max. -10db RMS
as i felt i was destroying all my mixes by mastering tooo loud.

i do master metal / metalcore / hardcore -10 db... i have uad 2 with all the great mastering plugs now. i did some bon jovi like rock stuff, very dynamic,
mastered -12db... fortunately everyone was happy with that.

How do you guys handle this tricky situation, where the band
says : our songs are not even close to being as loud as deaf magnetic... ?

and : what is your mastering limit?

 

[Sickan]

Definitely enough for me.
I limit at -0.3 dBFS.

 

[Fox Mulder]

I just make sure that my peaks are tamed up enough before I start the mastering process.
And I usually go for -9db rms when doing metal.

 

[RiF]

How do you guys handle this tricky situation, where the band
says : our songs are not even close to being as loud as deaf magnetic... ?

If they want it and they pay for it... turn down your limiter's threshold until the guys are pleased with the loudness. YOU don't have to listen to the thing. Many records are limited to death, so can be theirs.
If I master my own stuff, I am fighting the loudness war, of course. But I stop making it louder if I start to hear limiting artefacts.

 

[Soundlurker]

Roughly -9.0db for me.
Max -8.5db at the loudest sections of the song.

Bear in mind that RMS alone is not what defines how squashed and/or how loud a song sounds.

 

[Splat88]

Let me put it this way. Never, I repeat, never have I listened to the Black Album and wished that it was mastered louder. One of my favorite recordings is the Deftones' Around the Fur and that has very modest limiting by today's standards. I think its got RMS values around -11db or -10db on some spots. I've never listened to that album and wished it were any different than it is. On the other hand, their last two albums are way over the top on the limiting I find them hard to listen to.

I'm a sucker when it comes to my own stuff though. I almost always end up pushing my mixes to -9db and I think I need to sack up and lay off the limiter. Its hard because you want to be competitive.

I'd say go with -10db if you're happy with it. I think people may listen to the track longer if its not so slammed. I can't remember the last time I've listened to a modern album all the way through, especially with headphones on. Those constant levels just mess with my head.

 

[RiF]

I can't remember the last time I've listened to a modern album all the way through, especially with headphones on. Those constant levels just mess with my head.

+1

 

[Erik Monsonis]

Listen to Holographic Universe by Scar Symmetry. It's fucking quieter than most metal albums I've heard and it sounds like heaven to my ears.
-10dB RMS is a really good signal level.

I had to master an album once at -7dB RMS upon client's request. I begged him for not doing that, but he wanted it LOUD before GOOD... Don't do the same mistake

 

[Metaltastic]

Psshh, HU is nothing, you want a quiet modern metal album, nothing that I've heard comes close to Bloodbath's "The Fathomless Mystery"!

 

[-Noodles-]

I master to peak -0.3dBFS, and RMS is around -10dBFS.

For a laugh some day, once you've finished mastering something.. bounce it, and then keep limiting.
Bounce every 1dB you manage to "gain".

Leave the squashed versions for a few weeks, and then listen to them blindly.. and pick which sounds the "best" out of your original and pushed versions.

I did this once (got all the way up to -4dBFS RMS!) - and .. well, it was amazing. A true test to see what dynamics can have on a song in terms of it's listenability / longevity!

 

[Aaron Smith]

Listen to Holographic Universe by Scar Symmetry. It's fucking quieter than most metal albums I've heard and it sounds like heaven to my ears.

Quieter, really? I think that record sounds great too, but I think it's one of the louder metal albums I've heard. And there is some audible clipping going on, too... I was referencing it recently, and it seemed to be averaging around -7dBFS.

 

[AdamWathan]

Capharnaum - Fractured, now that's a quiet disc. Nice to see when a guy like Jason Suecof can appreciate dynamics in his own music despite what happens to most of the stuff he mixes!

 

[Erkan]

Shit... almost all metal I listen to is loud now that I think about it. The quietest music I listen to is probably early Jamiroquai stuff Dynamics!

 

[chonchball]

Let me put it this way. Never, I repeat, never have I listened to the Black Album and wished that it was mastered louder. One of my favorite recordings is the Deftones' Around the Fur and that has very modest limiting by today's standards. I think its got RMS values around -11db or -10db on some spots. I've never listened to that album and wished it were any different than it is. On the other hand, their last two albums are way over the top on the limiting I find them hard to listen to.

I'm a sucker when it comes to my own stuff though. I almost always end up pushing my mixes to -9db and I think I need to sack up and lay off the limiter. Its hard because you want to be competitive.

I'd say go with -10db if you're happy with it. I think people may listen to the track longer if its not so slammed. I can't remember the last time I've listened to a modern album all the way through, especially with headphones on. Those constant levels just mess with my head.

+infinity.
the loudness competition has been killing my mixes. it's been frustrating. i totally miss the pre-digital invasion, when music sounded MUSICAL.

 

[Erik Monsonis]

Quieter, really? I think that record sounds great too, but I think it's one of the louder metal albums I've heard. And there is some audible clipping going on, too... I was referencing it recently, and it seemed to be averaging around -7dBFS.

well, never analyzed it with some meter but comparing it to other albums I am listening at the moment I'd swear it was quiet... maybe I'm wrong... really wrong

I'll check it out later when I arrive home, now I'm confused

 

[StefTD]

Visceral Bleedings-Absorbing the Disarray is a bit quieter and imho more
dynamic than the most modern metal productions.
Highest Peak I found was like -9.0db RMS, average level was like -10 to -10.5db RMS.

 

[RiF]

I just listened to Deep Purple's Child in Time and this song is so dynamic that it catches your attention for some good 11 minutes easily. If anything is "up on 10" all the time, it get's boring very quickly. There's a need for a dramatic arc throughout a song to keep the listener listening (the same rule applies to books, theater pieces and movies as well). If we keep eliminating any dynamic elements in a song, the next obvious step would be to get rid of the intro, verses and useless breaks and just play the chorus over and over again...

 

[RiF]

Quieter, really? I think that record sounds great too, but I think it's one of the louder metal albums I've heard. And there is some audible clipping going on, too... I was referencing it recently, and it seemed to be averaging around -7dBFS.

I have "Pitch Black <something I forgot>" from Scar Symmetry and this album is one of the loudest I have.

 

[Metaltastic]

I have "Pitch Black <something I forgot>" from Scar Symmetry and this album is one of the loudest I have.

Pitch Black Progress is pretty loud, but NOTHING compared to Hypocrisy's "Virus" or Kronos' "The Hellenic Terror" (or Dimmu's "In Sorte Diaboli," but that one doesn't clip as badly as the other two)

 

[Fifth_Horseman]

Necrophagist's Epitaph also happens to be pretty quiet and therefore not tiring.