Something interesting about the headliners for PPV...

[JayKeeley]

I think it's funny that all their last releases were crap!

Savatage - Poets & Madmen (way subpar - probably my least fave 'tage album)
Edguy - King of Fools EP (contractually obliged musical output is always shite)
Kamelot - Epica (ok it wasn't horrible, but it wasn't as good as Karma or Siege Perilous)
Pain of Salvation - 12:5 (I mean, what the heck!?!)

Needless to say, it's a good thing that all these bands have an amazing back catalogue!!

OK this is just an opinion, I know some of you will flame, but I thought it was funny either way.

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

I'm quickly learning that I'm the only person out there who really liked 'Poets & Madmen.' Odd, ain't it?

 

[Nightmare1z]

I liked both "Poets and Madmen" and "King of Fools"...

*shrugs*

 

[Leper_/-\ffinity]

Well, 12:5 is brilliant, so I disagree.

 

[DT Jesus]

Poets and Madmen *was* pretty bad. Or maybe it just seemed that way because the band's five previous CDs were among the top 25 best CDs ever released.

-matt

 

[DrBell]

i know a decent amount of people that seem to think poets and madmen is savatage's best. here are 3 people that sure liked it:

http://www.metal-archives.com/review.php?id=1440

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

Poets and Madmen *was* pretty bad. Or maybe it just seemed that way because the band's five previous CDs were among the top 25 best CDs ever released.

-matt

See, now that's funny. To me, I mean. I stopped caring about Savatage right after "Streets," which was their last really enjoyable record until the latest.

Top 25 CDs ever released? Now I'm dying to know your other 20.

 

[Se7enChurches]

I'm quickly learning that I'm the only person out there who really liked 'Poets & Madmen.' Odd, ain't it?

I love it. Morphine Child and Commisar are badass songs. if only they hadn't felt the need to put "The Rumour" on there...

but yeah, that album is every bit as good as most of their other releases if not better, imo.

Ryan

 

[kamelotica]

Kamelot's Epica was not crap! It fucking kicked ass, the production was not as good as Karma but the songs and concept were killa.

 

[tenebre]

epica and king of fools crap?

i think not. But again on the net it seems hard to find anyone who does think "the old stuff was better" I think bands should only make one album and quit. that way they could never have anythign except old stuff

 

[ashaman7122]

I'm quickly learning that I'm the only person out there who really liked 'Poets & Madmen.' Odd, ain't it?

P&M...great album.

Gotta tell you, I was not impressed when I first heard it. The first taste I got was Dr. Metal's Metal Meltdown show, when they played Commisar. Was not impressed at all. Did it stop me from buying the album? Hell no...it's Savatage, and I knew that they had been working on this concept for a long time, despite Zak leaving, then Al leaving, then trying to figure out what to do, etc....

Got the new album, did not like it at all. My wife kept spinning it though, cuz, I guess she thought I was an idiot. It's another one of those albums that just grows and grows. I wouldn't call it one of my faves, cuz it's pretty hard for me to rank 'Tage albums...they each have something special and different going for them.

Still...bottom line...great album.

Also, for the record...King of Fools EP is kinda silly, but looking forward to the new full-length...Epica was a great concept with great music, but, oddly enough, don't spin it that often...POS' 12:5 is a fucking acoustic masterpiece, how could anyone expect anything less?

Rock on!

 

[JayKeeley]

epica and king of fools crap?

And I quote: "Kamelot - Epica (ok it wasn't horrible, but it wasn't as good as Karma or The Fourth Legacy etc)". It's certainly not a required Kamelot album by any means, and certainly not one I would recommend as required listening to someone new to the band.

King of Fools EP, other than the title track, was an abomination IMO. Songs that they can write in their sleep, but then it's well acknowledged that they had to rush the EP out for Nuclear Blast. The songs didn't even qualify as album leftovers. I hear the upcoming album is supposed to be phenomenal, however, and so my obsessive love affair with Edguy can be rekindled.

Look, all I'm saying is that these headliners are where they are today because of their back-catalogue, not their current releases. That's hard to dispute surely even by die hard fans! None of their latest efforts are anything to go by when compared to their back discography, which absolutely rule! It's just interesting, and yet useless, trivia.

 

[pAran0id anDr0id]

12:5 is brilliant. It's not metal at all, but it is as musically perfect as a live performance of PoS songs on acoustic instruments could get.

 

[Creeps]

I'm quickly learning that I'm the only person out there who really liked 'Poets & Madmen.' Odd, ain't it?

you are not alone, I was stoked because it was Jon singing again, which is the Savatage I grew up with.

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

you are not alone, I was stoked because it was Jon singing again, which is the Savatage I grew up with.

I think that is the EXACT reason I enjoyed it so much.

 

[DT Jesus]

I love it. Morphine Child and Commisar are badass songs. if only they hadn't felt the need to put "The Rumour" on there...

Weird. I think "Morphine Child" and "Commissar" two of the better tracks on the album, but I would actually put "The Rumour" ABOVE them as my favorite or second favorite song on the CD. For me, it was garbage like "Drive", "I Seek Power", and "Awaken" that made P&M so disappointing.

-matt

 

[DT Jesus]

See, now that's funny. To me, I mean. I stopped caring about Savatage right after "Streets," which was their last really enjoyable record until the latest.

Top 25 CDs ever released? Now I'm dying to know your other 20.

I didn't discover the band 'til 1995 and DWD. I like the old stuff, but it's just too straightforward and plain for me to get all worked up about. There are hundreds of bands who played great metal in the 80s, but who else did the Broadway-metal, storyline-oriented, poetically supplemented, multi-vocal harmony thing in the 90s? That's what makes them special to me....

And since you asked for the the rest of my top 25...... Actually, I looked back and saw that _Edge of Thorns_ doesn't make the cut. BUT, I had forgotten about TSO, which brings the total of top 25 albums up to seven (in just ten years!). In any event, here we go...

1. Fates Warning- Parallels (1991)
2. Marillion- Misplaced Childhood (1985)
3. Dream Theater- Images And Words (1992)
4. Savatage- Dead Winter Dead (1995)
5. Eternity X- The Edge (1997)
6. Pain of Salvation- Remedy Lane (2002)
7. Royal Hunt- Paradox (1997)
8. Shadow Gallery- Tyranny (1998)
9. Ayreon- Into The Electric Castle : A Space Opera (1998)
10. Savatage- The Wake of Magellan (1998)
11. Savatage- Streets : A Rock Opera (1991)
12. Trans-Siberian Orchestra- Beethoven's Last Night (2000)
13. Angra- Holy Land (1997)
14. Dream Theater- Metropolis Pt 2: Scenes From a Memory (1999)
15. Dream Theater- Awake (1994)
16. Queensryche- Operation : Mindcrime (1988)
17. Spock's Beard- The Light (1995)
18. Trans-Siberian Orchestra- Christmas Eve & Other Stories (1996)
19. Trans-Siberian Orchestra- The Christmas Attic (1998)
20. Arena- The Visitor (1998)
21. Arena- Immortal? (2000)
22. Fates Warning- A Pleasant Shade of Gray (1997)
23. Savatage- Handful of Rain (1994)
24. Enchant- Blink of an Eye (2002)
25. Rage- Ghosts (1999)

-matt
np: Fates Warning - Something from Nothing

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

Ok, you're a prog guy. All is clear.

 

[alexofbodom]

I think it's funny that all their last releases were crap!

Savatage - Poets & Madmen (way subpar - probably my least fave 'tage album)
Edguy - King of Fools EP (contractually obliged musical output is always shite)
Kamelot - Epica (ok it wasn't horrible, but it wasn't as good as Karma or Siege Perilous)
Pain of Salvation - 12:5 (I mean, what the heck!?!)

Needless to say, it's a good thing that all these bands have an amazing back catalogue!!

OK this is just an opinion, I know some of you will flame, but I thought it was funny either way.

I agree that three of the four above mentioned albums are not very good IMO but I don´t think Edguy´s ¨King of Fools¨EP and Pain of Salvation´s ¨12:5¨acoustic live album should count since they are both not regular albums. Kamelot´s ¨Epica¨is a very good album though.

 

[W.M.D.]

I don't think any headline band should be selected according to their lastest release anyway.

What if Masterplan had a great record this year and Iron Maiden's new record wasn't that great. Should Masterplan headline over Maiden. Certainly not, headliners are made over several records, it's their back catologe that give's them that respect.

As for Savatage i would say that sales wise in the US and Europe they are the best selling band and most widely known band that has ever played this festival. Plus they are the only band that has ever been on a major label that has played PP.

Atlantic Records 1985-2000 15 years


"Poet's and Madmen" was a great record!