Songwriting

53Crëw

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Jan 31, 2007
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Do any of you have suggestions to help with the songwriting process? Sometimes I come up with riffs I really like, but I'm not sure where to go with the song or how to build things to keep it interesting. Do you have any particular formulas or approaches you can suggest for putting together a good metal song? Any articles, songwriting books, or tips that you think are helpful? It's weird, some songs almost write themselves, and other times it's hard to know where to go with a song.

Cheers,
Steve
 
53Crëw;6847127 said:
Sometimes I come up with riffs I really like, but I'm not sure where to go with the song or how to build things to keep it interesting.

i do that all the time too. in fact, got one i started today like that. not sure this will help - but like you said - "some write themselves".

for the ones were just a single riff exist - maybe give it some time, come back to it. forcing anything never works. just sounds like crap in the end - and sadly - wastes the good riff in the process. some of my best music was written without effort - and in a very short period of time. the stuff i really, really work at ends up sounding disjointed and not natural (i.e. sucks).

i recommend laying it down on a few tracks, setting it aside and then coming back to it in a few weeks/month and see what inspires you.

maybe not what you're looking for, but may help in the end.
 
While Schust is right that sometimes your best music comes out without effort, it also only happens 1% of the time. If you want to make a "career" out of just being "inspired", then good luck to you ...

Songwriting is really "song re-writing" because there is always something to be improved.

Books that I can wholeheartedly recommend are:

1) 6 Steps To Songwriting Success by Jason Blume

and

2) Tunesmith by Jimmy Webb

Both are very successful pop/country composers and they outline the process of songwriting really, really, really well. Everything they write can be easily extapolated to metal because in the end it's mostly pop music with heavy guitars and drums and an extra riff or break or solo. The underlying concepts are the same.

Unless you wanna keep playing the rest of your life in front of your 9 buddies and the 2 drunk bikers who are always at the bar ... :)
 
Just keep doing songs, regardless if you think it sucks or not. Just complete the song. Then once you've done that for about 100 times, you'll have a better idea of what works and what doesn't. Rinse and repeat. Then once you have a bunch of songs ready, listen to them a lot. You'll start getting some ideas, be it arrangement, a new riff, adding a bridge or passage. Changing the chorus completely. Things like that.

I personally just set up a project in a DAW and start recording riffs after riffs (just one guitar track). Then once I have 10 riffs or so, I start building the song from the blocks of riffs. Then once I have a structure of some form, I start adding some drum tracks to it with a drum machine. Then I once again listen through the song and see what sounds wrong and what sounds good. Eventually you'll have a complete demo song. Now add some leads, synths or whatever you think it needs. And listen to it. Then add some more, or change things.

After that process (takes a few hours in total), you'll have a finished demo song. Make a pile of those and listen to them at home, while commuting, while driving a car, etc. See how it works.

Not every song will be the next Master of Puppets, but the more songs you do, the less and less duds you will end up with.
 
Just keep doing songs, regardless if you think it sucks or not.

Not every song will be the next Master of Puppets, but the more songs you do, the less and less duds you will end up with.

Absolutely. I just had this discussion with my girlfriend who started rapping last spring and expects to come up with great lines all the time. If I count the number of really good songs I have written in the past 15 years, it'll probably account to 2 songs per year or something like that ...

Not saying that all I write is crap, but the standout tracks, songs that you feel are your strongest, those will only come out every now and then.

And only if you work hard at it!
 
Different people work differently, so any comments on this topic won't apply to everyone.
I believe writing to a formula or "planning" a song will always produce a boring song. (I could be wrong of course!)
I often start with a vocal line, since I find it easier to write riffs I'm happy with to accompany a given vocal, than to write vocal stuff to fit with music already completed.
When I have part of a song done I'll listen to it and ask myself, "if I was listening to this on a CD, what could it do next that would make me say 'oh that's cool!'?"
Faster, slower, melody bit, same riff with different drumbeat, vocals start here, etc...
Try stuff, and be honest with yourself about if it's really working. Don't feel any need to "make" a particular idea work in a particular song. Even if it seems like "logically" it "ought to" be working - if it ain't, junk it and try something else. There's often an element of "throw enough shit against a wall and eventually something will stick" when I'm working on stuff, and often ideas I don't use become that start of a new song, so it's all good.
Don't get all grimly determined, if you want to write something people will enjoy listening to you stand a better chance if you enjoy writing it.
Just listening to tons and tons of different band's CDs you should absorb what turns you on about the music you like, in a general sense of the "feel" and the way a song "moves".
And when you hear recordings that disappoint, you can usually say what is turning you off.
So if you listen to the music you write as if it were something you heard from someone else you should be able to critique in the same way. And in the end you should wind up writing music which is exactly what you would want to hear from a CD.
Don't try to force stuff which ain't coming - put it by for later. It'll tick around in the back of your brain while you don't even know you're thinking about it, and one day you'll listen to it and suddenly know exactly what it needs.
And don't try to be anyone else - 'cos someone already is.
I've never read anything in a "how to" songwriting guide I didn't already know at a gut level. Just write with your gut instincts.
 
Different people work differently, so any comments on this topic won't apply to everyone.
I believe writing to a formula or "planning" a song will always produce a boring song. (I could be wrong of course!)

Try stuff, and be honest with yourself about if it's really working. Don't feel any need to "make" a particular idea work in a particular song. Even if it seems like "logically" it "ought to" be working - if it ain't, junk it and try something else. There's often an element of "throw enough shit against a wall and eventually something will stick" when I'm working on stuff, and often ideas I don't use become that start of a new song, so it's all good.
Don't get all grimly determined, if you want to write something people will enjoy listening to you stand a better chance if you enjoy writing it.
Just listening to tons and tons of different band's CDs you should absorb what turns you on about the music you like, in a general sense of the "feel" and the way a song "moves".
And when you hear recordings that disappoint, you can usually say what is turning you off.
So if you listen to the music you write as if it were something you heard from someone else you should be able to critique in the same way. And in the end you should wind up writing music which is exactly what you would want to hear from a CD.
Don't try to force stuff which ain't coming - put it by for later. It'll tick around in the back of your brain while you don't even know you're thinking about it, and one day you'll listen to it and suddenly know exactly what it needs.
And don't try to be anyone else - 'cos someone already is.
I've never read anything in a "how to" songwriting guide I didn't already know at a gut level. Just write with your gut instincts.

+1 on all this

Write only the music you want to hear. Anything else will sound contrived.

What happens with me is that i actually write the music i HEAR in my head first :)

Not to mention i DIG what i hear :)

I hear almost everything (bass + 2 or maybe 3 guitars + drums + "scratch" singing), so then i have to rush to my place to write guitars and bass on guitar pro and i write drums and vocals later...

Am i a loony or what ? Is it the same way for someone else here ?
 
I hear almost everything (bass + 2 or maybe 3 guitars + drums + "scratch" singing), so then i have to rush to my place to write guitars and bass on guitar pro and i write drums and vocals later...

Am i a loony or what ? Is it the same way for someone else here ?

You're not loony. :loco: Except for the writing in guitar pro (not familiar with that), this is what I do to. I usually just "hear" everything at once, completely or nearly finished. But then comes the part I dread: sitting down and actually trying to figure out how to play what I hear in my head.
 
You're not loony. :loco: Except for the writing in guitar pro (not familiar with that), this is what I do to. I usually just "hear" everything at once, completely or nearly finished. But then comes the part I dread: sitting down and actually trying to figure out how to play what I hear in my head.

haha thanks i'm not alone :)

For me writing the stuff in guitar pro (grs and bass) is ok even if it's time-consuming...

The most difficult part for me is to learn to play the stuff tightly on guitar afterwards :)
 
Do whatever sounds good to you, I'm kidding :devil:

What I like to do is listen to other music I like for inspiration. Sometimes it doesn't have to be music but just a mood you want to capture. I listen to the transitions from one riff to another which I think is the key to getting an overall good song as opposed to a collection of good riffs that don't make sense together. It's easy to repeat a riff too much so I usually try to stay on the less repetitive side at the risk of sounding a bit sporadic. But I think the approach I take is generally to make good transitions. Even if the song as a whole might be a little strange, good transitions will make it flow giving the illusion that it does somehow all workout. I think this is what makes bands like Dillinger Escape Plan and Meshuggah work.
 
What i always do:

- Get my guitar, write a couplet like riff, record it and make a rough track of it... maybe i'll add a bridge and a chorus straight away, most of the times later.
- put drums underneath the riff.
- see if i like it or not, after a week of listening you should have clear(er) vision if it sounds okay to you or not.
- once the couplet, bridge and chorus sound good, i delete everything and start over again, this time all recorded better and more accurate.
- Listen to the whole song now, minus bass, extra riffs, synths, samples, solos and drumfills.
- Give it another day or two, and if im happy with it, i start adding extra stuff i mentioned above.

that's songwriting for me... inspiration is a whole other deal though, i get that from fresh new bands, electro/industrial and classical music.
 
Ah, I getcha - at least it makes more sense than calling the hi-hat a "Charles!" I still haven't gotten a clear answer as to how that came to be...