Sound at Center Stage

[Dan Newcombe]

I've never been to Center Stage (or ProgPower), so other than some pics, don't know what to expect.
But seeing the video footage of Fates Warning from Germany and seeing Exodus open for King Diamond at the Tabernacle, I had a question (or few).

So, seeing Exodus, we were on the left side of the stage, right in front of the bass players amp. The only thing I heard during their set was bass bass bass bass bass bass BASS bass. Thankfully, King Diamond uses direct input devices into the PA instead of mics on amps, which made for great sound.

Looking at the video from Germany last month, I see a Marshall stack, a huge Ampeg, etc. with mics.

So how is the sound at Center Stage for all these bands? As much as I wouldn't mind being up front, I'd rather be able to hear good sound and all the parts.

 

[Matt Crooks]

I was at KIT for Fate's. The sound was not very good, but I don't think that has to do with using live amps vs. modeling amps. That mostly comes down to the person running the mixing board. Like any festival, KIT and PPUSA are at the mercy of the sound man. Both festivals can have great sound, and both can sound bad. Arch/Matheos and Fifth Angel both sounded amazing at past KITs, so I don't know what the issue was last week.

I'm looking forward to Fate's at PPUSA, because, in general, PPUSA has pretty good sound. That said, being right against the barricade up front is one of the worst places to be as far as sound goes. You're out of the throw of the main speakers, and if the sound is mixed in stereo, you're likely to miss out on one whole side. If you want the best sound, then you should be on the middle of floor, back towards the mixing desk.

 

[Sir Exar Kun]

That mostly comes down to the person running the mixing board. Like any festival, KIT and PPUSA are at the mercy of the sound man.

This right here. I'd say 90% of the time the sound at ProgPower is VERY good, but every now and then you end up with a band that their audio guys just don't have it together. I'm usually sitting somewhere behind the sound board, but have been all over the venue and the sound is good pretty much anywhere you want to be.

 

[NorseBlood]

Dan, The sound will be excellent, and you will become a PP fan for life. (As Glenn is still alive, we'll have to wait and see if he will continue PP into the afterlife. No hurries there Glenn.) He has said he may stop after PPXX, but we're all hoping that's not the case. I'd like to think as long as PP continues to sell out the motivation will always be there for another. Dan, this year you will go to PP at center stage and you will "raise the fist of your metal child" in all its surround sound PP event awesomeness that is only found in only one place in the universe once a year. And you will be at one with all. Damn is it PP yet?

 

[Stevie WOnder]

This right here. I'd say 90% of the time the sound at ProgPower is VERY good, but every now and then you end up with a band that their audio guys just don't have it together. I'm usually sitting somewhere behind the sound board, but have been all over the venue and the sound is good pretty much anywhere you want to be.

Usually, it's pretty good but sometimes, they mess it up bad. Last year, Angra had one of the loudest sound and so boomy that you had a hard time recognizing the songs. It took away the musicality of it all. I wasn't even sure that they were actually playing Carolina IV when they played it. I left after that...

 

[KingsGene]

My advice to you is to move around the room. The setup is quite unusual....standees on the main floor, and then the accelerated inclined horseshoe shape around in the seats. You have the freedom to move when it doesn't sound good to you; you'd be amazed at how different it will sound on the other side of the room or up near the top of the seats. I always tend to gravitate to stand right in front of the sound board, but isn't a guaranteed "good sound" spot, depending on the technician. And, I hope I don't have to tell you to bring earplugs as it will be a long 4 days.

 

[Harvester]

Usually, it's pretty good but sometimes, they mess it up bad. Last year, Angra had one of the loudest sound and so boomy that you had a hard time recognizing the songs. It took away the musicality of it all. I wasn't even sure that they were actually playing Carolina IV when they played it. I left after that...

They being the individual band's sound engineer.

 

[NorseBlood]

They being the individual band's sound engineer.

Makes me wonder why they just don't leave it to your engineers Glenn. Your guys do such an awesome job and they really know the venue.

 

[VenomGA]

Makes me wonder why they just don't leave it to your engineers Glenn. Your guys do such an awesome job and they really know the venue.

Quoted for truth!!

 

[Matt Crooks]

Makes me wonder why they just don't leave it to your engineers Glenn. Your guys do such an awesome job and they really know the venue.

It's not up to the promoter/venue. If the band wants to use their own sound engineer, they do.

 

[Harvester]

It's not up to the promoter/venue. If the band wants to use their own sound engineer, they do.

Yep. They have no idea what kind of job the venue guy will do despite my assurances, etc. I can understand that. We simply back off.

The big difference is that I can go the venue guy and tell him, "how about turning the overall volume down" or "what's up with the keyboard sound?" He will either take care of it or explain that it is an issue on stage that he is fighting (i.e. bass players that turn the shit up to 11 and the rest of the band fighting with him on stage trying to compensate). Things go to hell quickly like that.

 

[KingsGene]

On the flip side, a touring band's sound engineer can make a huge difference to the positive. Case in point was for Saxon, whose overall sound was completely massive yet not obscenely loud. And, the band's tech will know the songs and when to accent soloists and such; a house tech may not have a chance to realize those things until it's too late.

 

[Dan Newcombe]

And, I hope I don't have to tell you to bring earplugs as it will be a long 4 days.

I'll only be there Friday and Saturday, but I will probably upgrade my earplugs before then. So much tinnitus from the 80s!

Thanks for the input. I guess I'll find out as the day goes and gauge where to be based on that. As much as I'd like to be right up front it looks like even the furthest seat is 10x better than most of the seats I get at arena shows due to the inflated prices. Either way I get to see the classic Fates Warning lineup! Now, just have to figure out how to meet Anneke van Giersbergen.

 

[KingsGene]

Now, just have to figure out how to meet Anneke van Giersbergen.

Most (if not all) Fri/Sat bands will be doing a scheduled signing session throughout the weekend. That would be a good opportunity. A lot of the performers can be seen and met as they roam around the festival, although Anneke may not be one of them.

 

[NorseBlood]

I'll only be there Friday and Saturday, but I will probably upgrade my earplugs before then. So much tinnitus from the 80s!

It is said misery loves company. You're not alone. My tinnitus is pretty bad too.

 

[MeTuLHeD]

I'm looking forward to Fate's at PPUSA, because, in general, PPUSA has pretty good sound. That said, being right against the barricade up front is one of the worst places to be as far as sound goes. You're out of the throw of the main speakers, and if the sound is mixed in stereo, you're likely to miss out on one whole side. If you want the best sound, then you should be on the middle of floor, back towards the mixing desk.

What HE said.

Same for those who stand at the far right or left right up next to the subwoofer stacks (which are just beside/beneath the stage behind the curtains). It's AWL about dat bass!

It's the equivalent of standing directly in front of your stereo at home with your head stuck right up against a speaker. In other words...NOT optimal positioning for quality sound.

And while it is true that a bands own sound man should be able to make them sound their best, I have discovered that it varies widely.

Some of them are total pros who optimize the bands sound for the particular gear available, working within it's inherent limitations and making the band sound great. Anathema springs immediately to mind. And as a result, their sound was near flawless.

Still others are accustomed to working with HUGE systems (like what you might see at say Wacken) and seem determined to get equivalent SPL's out of the Center Stage sound system. The result? A brickwalled/redlined system that sounds like KEEERAP!

Oh well. As Da Boss has already pointed out, it's the band's choice.

P.S. After so many years working the show, I can now easily spot the guys who are going to go for the roaring wall of noise. It's like they have something to prove.

 

[Mardoch]

P.S. After so many years working the show, I can now easily spot the guys who are going to go for the roaring wall of noise. It's like they have something to prove.

DID YOU SEE HOW MANY DECIBELS I GOT THAT ONE UP TO!? WOOOO! LET'S GET SOME COFFEE.

Is roughly how I imagine their after-show conversations.

 

[MeTuLHeD]

DID YOU SEE HOW MANY DECIBELS I GOT THAT ONE UP TO!? WOOOO! LET'S GET SOME COFFEE.

Is roughly how I imagine their after-show conversations.

Yeah. I just don't get the "louder than thou" approach. Especially when the system has effectively run out of headroom. It's almost as if they are saying to themselves "I am going to MAKE this system clip!"

Anyway, it really is the primary reason there is such inconsistency in sound from one performance to the next.

 

[Stevie WOnder]

They being the individual band's sound engineer.

I don't doubt it. Too bad, they really screwed their own band.

 

[adaher]

In my experience, attending five PPs, the sound is outstanding for 80% of the bands, and at worst, just okay. I've heard of some particularly unfortunate performances, but I missed those. Chances are if you go you'll hear good sound throughout the festival. The only tiny criticism I have is that some years it's sounded like singers were obviously singing into a microphone and it didn't come out clear like I would have expected. I don't know if that's about sound or singer technique though. I've heard that actually using a microphone for singing is more complicated than just holding it and singing into it, so that could be a vocalist shortcoming rather than a sound issue per se.