Steven Slate Drum Woes

[Gar23]

Hey everyone,

I recently identified a problem i've been having with SSD as an actual problem and not just something I don't know how to use.

...at least I don't think it is.

Every kick and snare that I have in SSD has these incredibly sharp transients that are several db louder than the rest of the hit yet apparently have no sound to them. Many times after encoding them to an .mp3 they are gone entirely but not always. I tried adjusting the attack within kontakt to get rid of them, compressing, eq'ing (just in case they were outside the range of what i could hear) and limiting and so far nothing has worked well.

The worst of it is is that I am incapable of getting a mix to normal levels during mastering without clipping.

Here is a screenshot to show you what I mean

around 0:20 when the drums kick in that's when the transients go nuts.

Here is the mix
https://soundcloud.com/garpocalypse/taj-garpocalypse-komo-sanctu

I hope there is something i am doing wrong between Kontakt and my DAW (which is Sonar 8) because i have tried everything and so far it looks hopeless.

Thanks!

 

[The StabbinCabin]

Staged comp/limit/clipping tastefully is going to be where you'll have to listen closely and probably bounce tracks and look and them afterwards. From my experience, balancing frequencies from each element helps transients poke out better without having to use something like a transient designer for compensation. Overheads and room mics can help add the air and snap, so when squishing drums that's something I would consider. Parallel compression is another thing to think about too- maybe have the squashed track do most of the work? I had this similar problem and I started using comps and gclip all over the place just doing a little bit here and there and it helped a lot. Hope that helps.

 

[Gar23]

Staged comp/limit/clipping tastefully is going to be where you'll have to listen closely and probably bounce tracks and look and them afterwards.

Could you elaborate on the first part of that sentence? please?

After a discussion with a much more experienced mixer I realize that I may have been mixing too quietly for my own good. They seem excessive but those transients might be normal for SSD and it's the other elements that are too quiet.

Strangely the drums don't seem overly loud to me compared to the rest of the instruments.

The kick and the snare in this version were compressed and then sent to an Aux with an 1176 all button imitation compressor for some parallel compression. The idea was to overdo it and end up with sort of a Fear Factory Industrial Metal kit.

Going to keep messing around with it but thanks!

 

[Sloan]

maybe try slapping a clipper like GClip on them and kill all those transients.

 

[The StabbinCabin]

Like have one comp set to an atk/rls and GR that does some work but not all of it and then have another comp doing more GR with similar or different settings.

 

[egan.]

Drums are transient instruments by nature. It's not unique to slate packs. The way people get their mixes loud as hell is by destroying the natural transients with limiting/clipping. StabbinCabin outlines the basics pretty well.

 

[egan.]

Drums are transient instruments by nature. It's not unique to slate packs. The way people get their mixes loud as hell is by destroying the natural transients with limiting/clipping. StabbinCabin outlines the basics pretty well.

 

[Max Morton]

Gar23, you actually need these transients to make drums sound punchy and big in the mix. Actually, in the older days, long before the loudness war, the songs "LOOKED" almost like that. Hairy, peaky drums.

Now, when making your mixes louder, you should indeed use at least one, better two stages of clipping (minimum on your drum bus, better on your separate drums with separate amounts of transient cutting; maximum - drum bus/separate drums plus another clipper on the masterbus before your loudness maximizer). What clipper does is simply cutting off these peaks, which sounds virtually inaudible on drum transients (and remember that: TRANSIENTS. you can't clip the shit out your fat floor tom without lots of artifacts, but you can clip your snare as much as needed before it even hits your loudness maximizer).

In fact, these transients are what Slate drums are famous for. Not counting the crazy room samples, which are something unique in my opinion.

 

[waltz mastering]

I hope there is something i am doing wrong between Kontakt and my DAW (which is Sonar 8) because i have tried everything and so far it looks hopeless.

I'd forget about mixing or mastering with your eyes. Go with how it sounds and not with how it looks. As mentioned, a high peaking transient or leading edge is natural for any percussive sound. gl

 

[Gar23]

Thanks guys. I suspected I wasn't using them right. Just glad it isn't a glitch in Kontakt. I'm going to get the guitars louder and clip some things with Gclip.

I'd forget about mixing or mastering with your eyes. Go with how it sounds and not with how it looks. As mentioned, a high peaking transient or leading edge is natural for any percussive sound. gl

I did this for a competition and I noticed that my metal mixes always turned out far quieter than my non metal mixes. I looked to the drums to solve this problem because when I was mastering I would hear artifacts stemming from the kick and snare. After exporting the waveform looked kinda nuts so I thought i might have had a legit problem. You are right though.

Now, when making your mixes louder, you should indeed use at least one, better two stages of clipping (minimum on your drum bus, better on your separate drums with separate amounts of transient cutting; maximum - drum bus/separate drums plus another clipper on the masterbus before your loudness maximizer). What clipper does is simply cutting off these peaks, which sounds virtually inaudible on drum transients (and remember that: TRANSIENTS. you can't clip the shit out your fat floor tom without lots of artifacts, but you can clip your snare as much as needed before it even hits your loudness maximizer).

In fact, these transients are what Slate drums are famous for. Not counting the crazy room samples, which are something unique in my opinion.

Thanks for breaking that down. I freaking love SSD and I can't wait to see how it turns out following some of your advice now.