Subtractive EQ or other tricks to increase Vocal clarity?

[HDWR]

Hey fellas. I'm working on a very dense mix and I'm trying to really push it hard. Harder than anything I've done to this point. This new material is different than what I'm used too. Down tuned with a lot of stuff going on.

Anyway, I'm having some trouble getting the gruff vocals to be audible but not over powering. There's a big "hole" in the center of the mix for them to sit in but they still compete with the gtrs... and lose! Looking for some ideas to help the vox survive this modern metal mix. Is there kind of a "Go to" frequency you cut to add some clarity in the presence range? How much high pass is typically used for gruff vocals?

Thanks for any help!

 

[Skinny Viking]

try pulling down about 3dbs @ somewhere between 1500 - 3000 on the guitars

by the way, a clip would also help

 

[HDWR]

Appreciate your thoughts Viking. I'm going to give that a shot tonight. I'll post a clip in a few days when I feel it's closer to the best I can currently achieve. To be followed closely by more requests for ways to improve my ae/mixing skills!

 

[greyskull]

try pulling down about 3dbs @ somewhere between 1500 - 3000 on the guitars

by the way, a clip would also help

+1

 

[ahjteam]

like said here, wide but shallow dip at 1.5-3khz helps

 

[Ermz]

Yes, make sure the high mids of the guitars are in check. Then additively compress the vocals until there is extremely little dynamic left in them. After this you should start getting a better picture of where it needs to go in order to sit. It's either one of two possibilities. The track isn't allowing for the vocal to breathe, or the vocal itself doesn't cut enough.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

yep, what they said.
create a pocket in the mix for the vox to sit in.
the inportant frequencies for intelligibility of speeck are indeed between 1k and 3k.
then compress to fuck.
Use delay fed into a reverb instead of reverb, or raise the predelay....see what works best fpr your mix

 

[waltz mastering]

Could be anything, but If the guitars are already sounding good, I'm not sure I would make their tone suffer for the sake of getting the vocal to sound right.
Maybe eq and comp the vocal to make it work with what you already have unless it's an arrangement, level or panning issue. Sometimes a couple compressors in a series can work with a presence boost.. .hard to say without hearing. 2 cents

 

[Skinny Viking]

^ not disagreeing with the other points you made but if there is a sizable buildup at the 1.5 - 3K range in the guitars + vocals, cutting a few dbs there is not gonna be detrimental to the guitar tone. Its just gonna give the impression that the vocals have a bit more edge and attitude, ie - poke out of the mix more evenly with better results and the improved vocal presence will then add to the overall sound of the mix

 

[HDWR]

Wow thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'm going to try allof these things out and get a clip posted for further review asap. Lasse good call on the predelay. I'm using Nebula for reverb and I always forget there's no predelay available. Gotta use a different plug to get the predelay. That should help.

 

[amarshism]

rvox is your friend

 

[soundsunderground]

rvox is your friend

+1 if you don't have any good outboard gear.

to the OP, sounds like you need maybe more compression to get them to fit? I find that sometimes the more I compress and saturate the vocals, the better they fit and less eq they need.

 

[Ermz]

Yes, a combination of RVox, L1 and the CLA-76 Bluey will do you great for vox ITB.

 

[AStudio]

I would never be able to tell what your vocal needs unless I heard a clip, get that clip ready

 

[HDWR]

I'm going to work it out tonight I hope. Maybe another mixing marathon. My most current concern is that I'm getting weird phasing issues. I think somehow my audio on mixdown is being routed through my interfaces (M Audio Fast Track Ultra) mixer or something. I can't figure it out. I have all the Windows crap off.
What is Rvox? Is that Waves Renaissance Vocal channel strip? I just don't have $ for the Waves plugs at the moment. I have been eying the CLA compressor pack. Maybe I'll use the trial version. I dunno.
Mix to follow. Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions! This is a great forum!

 

[JonWormwood]

Just get something to smash the fuck out of it and the l1 clone

 

[the omega experiment]

+1 for the Rvox....with the ballgame setting. Threshold to taste. Waves SSL eq and comp are great for vox too, if you have the means.

 

[Masticore]

Limiter and a re-mix?

 

[HDWR]

Sorry it's taken me so long for a clip. Silly song has 2 intros... It really starts at about 1:19. I was fully against the "singing" in the 2nd intro. I have some clean up to do in areas but this is the general feel of it. Any specific pointers? I think overall it's too crisp sounding. Guitars too loud? I do realize the drums need some work. I'm shooting for a remix/quantize session this weekend.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5144930/7-7 Winter of Despair.mp3
Thanks to everyone for taking the time to help me out!